Garrett Has Had Full Autonomy Over the Offense For 6 Years

[Trajan]

Originally Posted by Risen Star

It's the typical blame the head coach for all that is wrong with the team we've seen here for two decades.

I try to keep in mind I'm talking to the same people who would have drove Sean Payton to the airport when he left. Now he's their savior.

I don't see daylight between Garrett and the Jerry administration. I see him as one of Jerry's cronies, a guy hand picked by Jerry. Anyone from inside Jerry World who rises up through the ranks to become Head Coach will be tainted IMO. Had Garrett with his weak resume come from another team I would be more receptive to him.

Let me put it this way, I see Garrett as a guy from the ranks who is tarnished by too much time with the cancer that is Jerry, a guy who's family is too much into the inner circle of Jerry to stand up and make the real choices needed to win. So far only Jimmy Johnson and Bill Parcells have been able to step up and with the force enough to dim Jerry's poor environment for winning. Both those guys got pushed out by Jerry after improving the team dramatically.

The only way I see success for this team is for another coach of that caliber, one with the gravitas to put their mark on the team in spite of all Jerry's antics, to come and smash the facade that Jerry has created.

You think Garrett is doing or will change the culture of failure that Jerry commands ? I doubt it.

If you are somehow correct that Garrett had almost no input into the poor drafting the many years he has been with the team then I don't see him being the strong person who will suddenly step up and take charge. If he didn't inject himself as OC from where will this new confidence emerge ? Just because he is now HC ? I doubt it.

[visionary]

Originally Posted by Trajan

I don't see daylight between Garrett and the Jerry administration. I see him as one of Jerry's cronies, a guy hand picked by Jerry. Anyone from inside Jerry World who rises up through the ranks to become Head Coach will be tainted IMO. Had Garrett with his weak resume come from another team I would be more receptive to him.

Let me put it this way, I see Garrett as a guy from the ranks who is tarnished by too much time with the cancer that is Jerry, a guy who's family is too much into the inner circle of Jerry to stand up and make the real choices needed to win. So far only Jimmy Johnson and Bill Parcells have been able to step up and with the force enough to dim Jerry's poor environment for winning. Both those guys got pushed out by Jerry after improving the team dramatically.

[View Full Quote]The only way I see success for this team is for another coach of that caliber, one with the gravitas to put their mark on the team in spite of all Jerry's antics, to come and smash the facade that Jerry has created.

You think Garrett is doing or will change the culture of failure that Jerry commands ? I doubt it.

If you are somehow correct that Garrett had almost no input into the poor drafting the many years he has been with the team then I don't see him being the strong person who will suddenly step up and take charge. If he didn't inject himself as OC from where will this new confidence emerge ? Just because he is now HC ? I doubt it.

I had high hopes for Garrett too but he has proven to be jellyfish with no backbone

[Dodger12]

Originally Posted by Risen Star

I try to keep in mind I'm talking to the same people who would have drove Sean Payton to the airport when he left. Now he's their savior.

I've heard you say this on multiple occasions but you're incorrect. You make it sound like the masses wanted Payton gone and that's simply not the case. Payton turned down the Raiders gig because it wasn't right for him. He was a hot commodity at the time.

We may not have been as successful, record wise, under BP but very few blamed Payton. He ran the offense the way the HC wanted it run and that was conservative. Everyone knew that. There were rumors that Payton got spanked when he wanted to open up the playbook. The only person that took heat during those years was the HC. Hell, we didn't even know for sure who was calling the plays half the time because BP didn't want anyone to know.

To go one step further, no one blamed Sparano for a conservative game plan against Seattle. No one blamed the OC for not attacking a weak set of corners. It was all on the HC.

Originally Posted by a_minimalist

I wasn't here for that but it doesn't shock me at all.

It should because it never happened.

[Aven8]

Originally Posted by Trajan

I don't see daylight between Garrett and the Jerry administration. I see him as one of Jerry's cronies, a guy hand picked by Jerry. Anyone from inside Jerry World who rises up through the ranks to become Head Coach will be tainted IMO. Had Garrett with his weak resume come from another team I would be more receptive to him.

Let me put it this way, I see Garrett as a guy from the ranks who is tarnished by too much time with the cancer that is Jerry, a guy who's family is too much into the inner circle of Jerry to stand up and make the real choices needed to win. So far only Jimmy Johnson and Bill Parcells have been able to step up and with the force enough to dim Jerry's poor environment for winning. Both those guys got pushed out by Jerry after improving the team dramatically.

[View Full Quote]The only way I see success for this team is for another coach of that caliber, one with the gravitas to put their mark on the team in spite of all Jerry's antics, to come and smash the facade that Jerry has created.

You think Garrett is doing or will change the culture of failure that Jerry commands ? I doubt it.

If you are somehow correct that Garrett had almost no input into the poor drafting the many years he has been with the team then I don't see him being the strong person who will suddenly step up and take charge. If he didn't inject himself as OC from where will this new confidence emerge ? Just because he is now HC ? I doubt it.

Great post!

Jerry is 70. If he waits another year to wait and see I think it will never happen for him again in his lifetime. Change is needed and I want everybody on this staff that was here during Wade gone. It's really that simple for me.

Yes the team played better, but so did Cleveland for a 4-5 game stretch.

[CowboysYanksLakers]

Jason needs to get the short routes back into the offense...

[dooomsday]

Originally Posted by Risen Star

He makes the rules. That doesn't mean he's right. A quick glance at his track record tells anyone he's made a living being wrong.

So to use what Jerry does as proof of what's the right thing to do reeks of desperation. You couldn't possibly find a worse decision maker in the NFL.

Hey, these fools are Romo stricken and now that he's been exposed (again) it's a full on hard on for Garrett. Same thing every year. At the start of next season they'll tell us what a great year Romo had, his best ever. And we'll forget the beginning and end.

A coach is clearly only as good as his talent. Try as they may Garrett is not the GM, this isn't a normal situation where there is a qualified GM and if we are quoting Jerry he said he makes the final decision on personal calls, period. Hes the SB winning GM with 25 years experience. Autonomy in this case refers to play calling and scheming. You would have to be stupid to suggest Jerry has relinquished his power.

Garrett's O is record breaking as far as I know. We'd like more points, but those unbiased fans know the deal there!

Oh, and Mendenhal SUX! His team hates him, and eventually benched him. There goes that barometer. But the fools still use it. LOL!

[dooomsday]

Still pimping Wade too? LMAO! After success with BPs players, and the trenches he, BP, built it only took Wade 3 subsequent years to destroy it all and leave to cupboard bare with nothing on O or D to show. It's the defense collapse that finally cost him his job. So to bring him up as a success and lop off the last two years of his folly that was some of the worst football we have ever seen is laughable. He's the reason we had to rebuild when Garrett took over. We may not have called it that, but that's what happened. And beside the mental state of quitters he also fostered Garrett had to clean up, he's still paying for his poor drafts. Some of the worst in team history. That's what
He followed, Wades broke down losing team. Wade took over a winning team, from a capable collector of talent. Could not have been any more difficult for Garrett following incapable and ineffective Waddles.

I'll take Dez, Ty, Murray, Bruce etc. Or do we only base his success on Felix? Hahaha!

[dooomsday]

Originally Posted by Risen Star

It's the typical blame the head coach for all that is wrong with the team we've seen here for two decades.

I try to keep in mind I'm talking to the same people who would have drove Sean Payton to the airport when he left. Now he's their savior.

LOL! And the same people loved Wade Phillips and couldn't see the forest thru their woody for him. Worst coach in our history.

You nailed it. We have the dumbest fans and they are always willing to show it! Like in this case. First, we're taking Jerry at his word? Even tho he cleary says over and over and over the buck stops with him? Well that's not very savy or intelligent. Then we have Garrett's role expanding to full autonomy after a season of complaining that he's just a lackey. You can't write this stuff! The meddling owner with the self appointed GM title who has said he makes all the rules and picks all the players .....was just kidding. Haha!

[Risen Star]

Originally Posted by Dodger12

I've heard you say this on multiple occasions but you're incorrect. You make it sound like the masses wanted Payton gone and that's simply not the case.

You're re-writing history.

Yeah, that was the case. He sucked as much as Garrett does right now. Can't run an offense. Had his play calling taken away in New York for a reason.

[SultanOfSix]

Originally Posted by Trajan

Both those guys got pushed out by Jerry after improving the team dramatically.

This is patently false. Jimmy was partly to blame for the first. And Parcells burned out and left out of his own volition. In fact, Jerry tried to get him to stay for another year but he said no.

[Dodger12]

Originally Posted by Risen Star

You're re-writing history.

Yeah, that was the case. He sucked as much as Garrett does right now. Can't run an offense. Had his play calling taken away in New York for a reason.

No I'm not RS. And we weren't talking about what happened in NY or what NY fans thought of him. No one even interviewed him for a HC gig when he was in NY, as far as I can remember. We're talking about what the fans thought of him here. He was thought highly enough around league circles to get HC offers.

No one here wanted him run off. Matter of fact, when New Orleans creamed Dallas 42 - 17, the fan base had a field day and were savvy enough to realize that BP never let him open up the play book here. Everyone knew it.

Can you direct me to any any negative Sean Payton threads on the Zone where fans wanted him run off or fired? Or maybe some negative articles about Payton? Something remotely similar to the heat JG is taking?

[Risen Star]

Originally Posted by Dodger12

No I'm not RS. And we weren't talking about what happened in NY or what NY fans thought of him. No one even interviewed him for a HC gig when he was in NY, as far as I can remember. We're talking about what the fans thought of him here. He was thought highly enough around league circles to get HC offers.

No one here wanted him run off. Matter of fact, when New Orleans creamed Dallas 42 - 17, the fan base had a field day and were savvy enough to realize that BP never let him open up the play book here. Everyone knew it.

Can you direct me to any any negative Sean Payton threads on the Zone where fans wanted him run off or fired? Or maybe some negative articles about Payton? Something remotely similar to the heat JG is taking?

I have links to comments made that far back? Yeah, I'll get right on that.

You can pretend all you want. I would to if it made me look that foolish. The fact of the matter is Sean Payton was deemed another failed coach here. He got the Garrett treatment before Garrett. The comments about his tenure in N.Y. were made. I don't recall many people sad to see him go.

But then he went to a properly run organization and showed he wasn't the problem. Something I think Garrett could also do.

Quit blaming the coach for a failed front office and personnel issues. It's weak, lazy and a complete waste of time.

[Risen Star]

Originally Posted by Risen Star

I have links to comments made that far back? Yeah, I'll get right on that.

You can pretend all you want. I would to if it made me look that foolish. The fact of the matter is Sean Payton was deemed another failed coach here. He got the Garrett treatment before Garrett. The comments about his tenure in N.Y. were made. I don't recall many people sad to see him go.

But then he went to a properly run organization and showed he wasn't the problem. Something I think Garrett could also do.

Quit blaming the coach for a failed front office and personnel issues. It's weak, lazy and a complete waste of time.

I should add, I'm not singling you out, Dodger. Maybe you didn't. But all I read at that time were the same things I read now about Garrett. In over his head. Can't adjust. Poor play calling.

Does anybody remember a fan backlash when we let Payton go? Of course not because it never happened.

[Beast_from_East]

Fellas, we can go back and forth all day as to how much "autonomy" Garrett has had the past 6 seasons with this offense. However, that is really missing the point.


Jerry clearly stated in his interview that Romo was an assett that we needed to build our offense around like the Skins built their offense around their assetts (meaning RG3 and their running back).

He then went on talking about how great a coaching job the Skins have done by tailoring their scheme to fit their talent, clearly a direct indication that he does not believe Garrett has tailored the offense to Romo's strenghts.

The bottom line is that Jerry does not think Garrett's offense that we have run the past 6 seasons is tailored to Romo's strenghts. We are basically putting Romo in bad positions and thus that is why all of this talk of a consultant.

This consultant apparently is going to tweak or totally replace Garrett's offense to best take advantage of Romo's abilities. Clearly Jerry does not think Garrett knows how to do this, that is why a consultant is needed.


Thats pretty much the takeaway you get from Jerry, that he is not happy the way our offense is structured, regardless of how much "autonomy" Garrett has had over that offense.

[Trajan]

Originally Posted by SultanOfSix

This is patently false. Jimmy was partly to blame for the first. And Parcells burned out and left out of his own volition. In fact, Jerry tried to get him to stay for another year but he said no.

Partly to blame doesn't equal patently false. Jerry and his antics pushed the only two quality coaches from his team. Jerry fired Jimmy, kinda hard to say he wasn't pushed out the door. Sure, Jimmy had an ego and said something Jerry didn't like but a rational owner probably escalates the punishment to meet the crime, not can the guy who just won you 2 Super Bowls. Jerry wanted Parcells gone, said he wasn't "worth a sh_ _", only hired him to build the stadium and stated how hard it was for him with Parcells here. Don't think that helped show Bill the door ?

Anyway, my point was more to illustrate how Jerry deals with quality coaches, the kind we need, guys who will make life uncomfortable for Jerry.