Here is how a team is built

[rocyaice]

Originally Posted by jterrell

We had ~40 starts last year from that same group
So now because he may not be here Anthony Spencer can't play either?

Would be nice if you had a salient point to make.
We have drafted guys like MartyB, Jenkins and Spencer who are far more than average NFL players that simply end up elsewhere for more money. Welcome to the salary cap era.

How many of those Seattle players are gonna be there in 4/5 years when they have to be paid a 2nd contract?

Yea and guys like Stephen Bowen and Chris Canty are starting for teams in this league too. Guys who should still be here but like you stated welcome to the salary cap era.


In regards to the OP, the Cowboys are built very similar. Hell most teams are. Our 2011 draft class consisted of Tyron Smith, Bruce Carter, Demarco Murray, Dwayne Harris and Dan Bailey.

I have no problem with the talent on this team. Well the starters anyway. Its always been depth and that's been dwindling as the years have gone by whether its guys leaving via free agency or guys simply declining.

That 2009 draft really hurt us in that department. Those guys should be just entering the prime of their career. It doesn't help that 2009 was simply a bad draft class as it is but we have absolutely nothing to show for it.

[jterrell]

Originally Posted by ABQCOWBOY

That's a fair point IMO. It is very difficult to know what your team will look like in 4 or 5 years but I don't believe that it's a point that supports the Cowboys much. It's true that we lost players and will probably lose more but to be honest, we didn't have to lose them. We did a poor job of drafting and managing our cap, which in turn, forced us to make certain decisions. A team like Seattle may have to face this in the future but they may also make better decisions then we have and not be forced into a lot of those kinds of moves. Jenkins was a good pick that seemingly never wanted to be here. Hard to see that coming. Marty B was a pick we never should have made IMO. Spencer is a guy who, because of his limited production in his NFL career, could become a cap casualty. It's difficult to know if he's going to be the Spencer we have seen this year or the Spencer we have seen for most of the rest of his career. The later is not worth a long term deal for upwards of 7/8 [View Full Quote]million IMO.

These are all examples of different situations coming together to impact our roster but I truly believe that had we had a plan in place for these many years, we would be in a position to deal with these kinds of issues. I do understand, it's not easy and that's why there are so few teams who can deal with it well. I really would rather us adopt a strategy that allows us to draft towards a profile, so to speak. Have a direction or plan like Pittsburgh has done for years and years or New England more recently. Not just willy nilly, so to speak. I don't know, not even sure that makes sense. I just think we could have done a better job. I do think it's getting better but I don't believe we are there yet. If we were, we wouldn't be forced to cut or let walk certain players that we may otherwise want to keep. Worst case, we would have players behind them ready to step in.

The Seahags are paying 1m for a starting QB. So it's rather not apples and apples we are discussing.

As I've noted 100 times they were coming off of 4 losing seasons. They didn't feel the need to keep or overpay ANYONE.

Dallas has went to week 17 the last two years. It is VERY hard to view that as far from payoff contention. Certainly not as freeing as if we had won 5 games this year and simply hired a new coach and started over potentially with a new QB. You don't take those gambles as playoff contenders as Jerry noted yesterday.

[Hostile]

Originally Posted by ABQCOWBOY

Your words, not mine.


Seattle may lose some of their players. They lost several from the previous administrations but that's not really the trick is it? The trick is to put yourself in a position to overcome those departures or loses. As I said in a previous post, it's not an easy thing to do but there are organizations that do have a system and do overcome those kinds of things. I would like to be one of those teams.

As an FYI, take your blower with you. It's much quicker and that will allow you to have much more time to bask in his Seahawk Ora.

Check, leaf blower makes work faster. Good info.

[IAMKING]

Originally Posted by Switz

If they win the superbowl Ill agree. Until then they are the 6th seed with no home games. Only time will tell how this group will do. We will see

Last I checked Vikings had 6th seed

[ABQCOWBOY]

Originally Posted by jterrell

The Seahags are paying 1m for a starting QB. So it's rather not apples and apples we are discussing.

As I've noted 100 times they were coming off of 4 losing seasons. They didn't feel the need to keep or overpay ANYONE.

Dallas has went to week 17 the last two years. It is VERY hard to view that as far from payoff contention. Certainly not as freeing as if we had won 5 games this year and simply hired a new coach and started over potentially with a new QB. You don't take those gambles as playoff contenders as Jerry noted yesterday.

I don't dispute that they are in a different situation then we are. Of course this is true but it has nothing to do with the job Carroll has done there. We have over paid many, many players in the last several years and the large majority of them were not QBs. Because of this and because of the fact that we have made, in many case, what I consider to be poor trades, we have created a lot of that inability to manage cap ourselves. Will Seattle do the same? I don't know but what difference does that make? In three short years, Seattle has managed to build a good team. It can be done and the point I am trying to stress is that a large part of that rebuild happened outside of the draft. That's where I think we have done a rather poor job of executing.

We have talked many times and I feel certain that you agree with me on this JT. We have discussed this many, many times.

[Future]

Originally Posted by morasp

I actually think that Garrett has done better adding talented players than Parcells did. So far our drafts have been pretty solid. Offensive line is still a work in progress but the offseason was more about defense than offense.

He has. Parcells had an antiquated approach that might have worked in the 80s, but not when he was there.

[FLcowboy]

Originally Posted by jterrell

ROFL.

Are we really talking about the Seahags now as a model?

Good grief.

They are benefiting from a system that defenses can't yet handle.
The overall talent on that team stems from being below .500 and thus drafting high 4 consecutive seasons leading into this year.

Soo all we have to do is give Jerry four years of under .500 to build this team....

Cowboys have been 8-8, 8-8, 6-10, and 11-5 the last 4 years. The following quote on wikipedia says it all about how good Dallas drafts:

The 2009 NFL draft was one of the worst in the history of the Dallas Cowboys, with a lot of experts comparing it unfavorably to the 1995 "backup draft". This draft is infamously known as the "special teams draft", but it was so terrible, that as the years have passed it has garnered different nicknames. Entering the season the team considered their special teams a glaring weakness, so they hired a new coach (Joe DeCamillis) and focused on drafting players who could contribute immediately on this unit. The Cowboys started the day without a first round draft choice (part of the price to acquire Roy Williams) and then traded out of the second round to obtain more picks, reaching a total of 12, which was the most selections since their 1992 NFL draft. The eventual result was that the team couldn't find a starter in the group and most of the players drafted were waived by the 2010 season.

Say what you want, but Jerry has stunk the place up the last four years.

[Zordon]

i admire what they've done in seattle. hopefully i don't get my fan card pulled for saying that but i want a tough, physical, brash, borderline cocky team like they have.

[perrykemp]

Originally Posted by Zordon

i admire what they've done in seattle. hopefully i don't get my fan card pulled for saying that but i want a tough, physical, brash, borderline cocky team like they have.

John Schneider is the GM there in Seattle. He learned the trade working for Ron Wolf -- same as Ted Thompson who Schneider also worked for.

IMHO, I've love it of Jerry brought in Ron Wolf as an advisor for a year or so.

[Zordon]

Originally Posted by perrykemp

John Schneider is the GM there in Seattle. He learned the trade working for Ron Wolf -- same as Ted Thompson who Schneider also worked for.

IMHO, I've love it of Jerry brought in Ron Wolf as an advisor for a year or so.

are there any other ron wolf disciples we can pick off the tree?

[perrykemp]

Originally Posted by Zordon

are there any other ron wolf disciples we can pick off the tree?

John Dorsey, Thompson's director of pro personnel is likely going be announced at the Chief's next GM.

Last season, Reggie McKenzie left Thompson's staff to become the GM of the Raiders.

The one that a whole bunch of teams have a strong interest in is Elliot Wolf, Ron Wolf's son who is the ultimate NFL wonderkid GM in waiting. Read his BIO when you get a chance -- he has been writing scouting reports for NFL teams since age 14.

All of these guys -- Thompson, Dorsey, McKenzie, are direct Ron Wolf disciples as well as obviously Ron Jr. (Elliot).

Packers have been trying to shield Elliot Wolf from the league -- the thought is that Ted Thompson is retiring in 2-3 years and Wolf has possibly been promised 1st crack at replacing him.

I say GO GET HIM JERRY!

[mmillman]

Originally Posted by jterrell

again when you are winning less than half your games 4 years in a row you develop young guys and play your draft picks. you dont need to overpay anyone to stay.

a few guys this year who have ascended to be plus starters were mediocre to bad in seasons past but played anyways.

like i said, it is far easier to build from losing to a 6 seed, then it is to remain a playoff team for a decade.

if i am going to model a franchise i'll go with the pats and all those 10+ win seasons in a row. i am not going to pick a team who has less playoff wins in the past half decade than us.

Then you are completely missing the point. Seattle has put a good team together through a combination of free agency, good middle round drafting, Canada, trades. Dallas has done poorly in all of those areas and with poor cap management. New England is a poor comparison exactly because they have been good for a long time. They are a model of how to manage a good team by maneuvering in the draft and managing the cap well.

Seattle won today and they were in Superbowl 6 years ago against Pittsburgh. Not saying anybody should switch teams, but just illustrating the way a team got better in a hurry and without big contributions from high #1 picks.

[MartinRamone]

We had some terrible drafts that now we are suffering, luckily Jerry could fix it a bit with the last 3 drafts that were good.
Need to have some solid drafts to fix our holes and we can contend, next two drafts will be very important.

[perrykemp]

Originally Posted by mmillman

Seattle won today and they were in Superbowl 6 years ago against Pittsburgh. Not saying anybody should switch teams, but just illustrating the way a team got better in a hurry and without big contributions from high #1 picks.

I also believe they have the richest owner in the NFL backing them as well.

[CyberB0b]

Originally Posted by MartinRamone

We had some terrible drafts that now we are suffering, luckily Jerry could fix it a bit with the last 3 drafts that were good.
Need to have some solid drafts to fix our holes and we can contend, next two drafts will be very important.

Time will tell on how well we have drafted recently. Carter, Lee, and Murray have missed significant time since coming to the team.