We Saw Today What a Good OL Can Do For a QB and Team

[Oh_Canada]

Originally Posted by perrykemp

I hear you, however, I think the Aaron Rodgers example isn't a great one and I tell you why:

Some day NFL stats geeks will pour of Aaron Rodgers stats with sheer amazement and wonder how the heck the QB with the highest QB rating in the history of the NFL was also the most sacked QB in the league at the same.

Logic would tell you the most sacked QB in the league would have an absolutely terrible QB rating and the teams he was playing on would have sucked.

In otherwords, I'm not sure we've ever seen a QB in the history of the league who has ever done what Rodgers is doing. Lots of the credit goes to McCarthy.

Having said that, to say "well, the Packers offense still performs despite a shoddy OL and no running game so ours should to" is akin in my mind to pointing to a 1 in 1000 statically anomaly and saying "well, look, it IS possible".

I completely agree. However using the Redskins as some sort of example of a great oline are delusional. Take Griffin out of the equation and that's an ordinary line. Wilson got sacked five times yesterday, had that been Romo people would have been calling to replace everyone and Callahan to boot...even if Murray runs for 120yds.
My point isn't to improve the oline, but rather letting them grow organically and maybe adding an olineman in the draft (1-3 rd) or a decent FA. Some people think the Cowboys need to draft three lineman in order to improve and I just don't see it that way. Not at the expense of the dline and pass rush which I think are more important issues for this team.

[IrishAnto]

Originally Posted by Oh_Canada

Ok than.

Cook-2nd rd pick
Nate Livings-FA
Bernardeau-7th
Smith-1st rd
Free-3rd rd.

How many second/third round lineman have the Cowboys picked? Thought you said those shouldn't be considered high picks? Could have sworn you said other teams castaways aren't a way to solve the oline?? Or does it only apply to other teams?

At least get your facts right.

Where did I say they shouldn't be considered high picks?

You were inferring the Seahawks and Redskins lines were largely made up of
Free Agents and cast-offs.

Originally Posted by Oh_Canada

Yeah ok--guess you're ok with FA's and castoffs on the oline than, because that's exactly what you have with the Deadskins oline.

Originally Posted by Oh_Canada

There is nothing great about either offensive line, and if you're going to hold them up as gold standards as to how to build an oline you should look at the way they are composed. Plenty of FA's, late picks and waiver claims on both units, they've had the good fortune of both being pretty healthy all year as well.

I rebutted your assertion.

This had little to do with the Cowboys.

However since you bring it up.

Free was a 4th rounder and in the last few games was splitting time with Jeremy Parnell who was an undrafted former Basketball player.

[DFWJC]

Originally Posted by IrishAnto

Let’s take a look at this statement in a little more detail shall we?
Starting line up for both teams last night

Seattle Seahawks

Russell Okung 1sr round SS 6th overall pick
Max Ungar 2nd round pick
Paul McQuistan 3rd round pick
Jr Sweezy 7th round pick
Breno Giacomini 5th round pick

Washington Redskins

Trent Williams 1st round 4th overall pick
Kory Lichtensteiger 4th round pick
Will Montgomery 7th round pick
Chris Chester 2nd round pick
Tyler Ploumbus undrafted

So less late picks and free agents and more draft picks 50% of the ten players taken in the first three rounds.

Careful.

Truth and facts are not allowed here.

[jterrell]

Originally Posted by IrishAnto

He was still a 3rd round pick.

And what about the other 1st and 2nd rounders. They don't count?

Nice try!

The Redskins have 1 player drafted in the top 3 rounds.
Dallas has 3.

The talk about investment along the OL has never broken well for the crybabies on here.

Dallas invests plenty in the OL it simply misevaluated talent.
On the other end of the spectrum it has underspent on it's 3 man DL but gotten great production from low round picks and UDFA.

Washington's OL got a whole lot better when they added RG3 and Morris.

Nice try in minimizing Morris because he was an UDFA but so was Tony Romo. I watched Morris enough to know he can really play. He abused our guys after he got to the edge or second level and that had very little to do with blocking.

Neither of those OLs looked that good last night. Washington dominated that Seattle OL and Seattle also struggled to protect Wilson.

Both of those teams got great coverage from their secondary and had very good defenses. Wilson didn't even hit 200 yards passing but when Washington failed to score more than 14 and couldn't really even get 1st downs after the 1st quarter it didn't take a lot of offense from Seattle.

[IrishAnto]

Originally Posted by jterrell

The Redskins have 1 player drafted in the top 3 rounds.
Dallas has 3.

Name them.

[Ntegrase96]

We saw what a good OL can do for a team and QB for glimpses of the game, I agree.

I think if you look at the Ravens game, you would probably get an even better understanding of how a solid OL combined with play-calling (Play Action, in particular) can really put a defense on its heels.

All that said, (and I really hate to be 'that' guy) I just don't think that a great offensive line will save Romo from his brain farts on big stages.

Doesn't mean I don't want to upgrade our OL, I certainly do. But if Romo is in the same position he was on that last drive against the Redskins, I don't think there's much the OL can do for him.

[jterrell]

Originally Posted by IrishAnto

Name them.

tyron smith
derrick dockery
ryan cook

they also have round 4
doug free
david arkin

[jterrell]

There is little doubt the OL needs to be better.

Whether that is like Washington and means getting better after a year together or adding a key starter to strength a pedestrian group it can certainly be better. And anytime you improve any group on the team you get better.

But any improve the OL at all costs people are simply not smart football people.

Using gimmick offenses the Seahags and Skins did quite well this year. But you don't claim wildcat success as a reason to build a dominant OL and you don't claim the same for this new read option stuff. It is short-term stuff.

RG3 will likely do less and less of it each week. We will see if Wilson even keeps his job in a few seasons.

Dallas lost to Washington because it was terrible on defense versus the run. We had a MASH unit on the field and our best players were either on IL or playing hurt.

This is still a passing league. But you'll always be better if you can do both and keep defenses honest.

Minny has the best back in football and a very good OL. They managed really 3 points in the playoff game. (the other 7 was late, game over fluff).

[Double Trouble]

We also saw what a great defense can do. Or an injury can do. Or good coaching can do. Or what a great QB (on Sat night) can do.

Next weekend, we'll get to see more of what a great QB can do for a team. In a playoff setting.

[IrishAnto]

Originally Posted by jterrell

tyron smith
derrick dockery
ryan cook

they also have round 4
doug free
david arkin

I see you left out Chris Chester 2nd round pick for the Skins in your comparison and since you're going to the 4th how about adding Kory Lichtensteiger as well.

And David Arkin isn't a starter since this is what the thread is about, in fact he never sees the field.

However since my original post and this thread is about last nights teams then I'm not sure why you’re suggesting I'm bringing up the cowboys?

I'm happy to discuss that in another thread.

[Oh_Canada]

Originally Posted by IrishAnto

I see you left out Chris Chester 2nd round pick for the Skins in your comparison and since you're going to the 4th how about adding Kory Lichtensteiger as well.

And David Arkin isn't a starter since this is what the thread is about, in fact he never sees the field.

However since my original post and this thread is about last nights teams then I'm not sure why you’re suggesting I'm bringing up the cowboys?

I'm happy to discuss that in another thread.

I find it laughable you point to the Paul McQuistan's and Wil Montgomery's of the world as the way to build an oline but scoff at the Cowboys for doing the same.

The Skins oline was horrible with similar talent/players a year ago. They would be viewed as horrible this year if RGIII was playing on another team, and the great sixth round RB would probably be a practice squad player.

You really going to tell me Alfred Morris runs for almost five yds per carry with Kirk Cousins sitting behind center? I wish RGIII misses a few games next year and we'll see how many people are writing threads about how great the Skins oline is without Griffin scaring the be****** out of every defensive front they face?

[IrishAnto]

Originally Posted by Oh_Canada

I find it laughable you point to the Paul McQuistan's and Wil Montgomery's of the world as the way to build an oline but scoff at the Cowboys for doing the same.

The Skins oline was horrible with similar talent/players a year ago. They would be viewed as horrible this year if RGIII was playing on another team, and the great sixth round RB would probably be a practice squad player.

You really going to tell me Alfred Morris runs for almost five yds per carry with Kirk Cousins sitting behind center? I wish RGIII misses a few games next year and we'll see how many people are writing threads about how great the Skins oline is without Griffin scaring the be****** out of every defensive front they face?

I find it laughable you’ve moved what I said about the Skins and Seahawks on to the Cowboys.

Clearly you’ve not got the ability to keep to a topic or point out where in my original post I mentioned the Cowboys.

But then I don’t expect much from you so I shouldn’t be surprised.

[Oh_Canada]

Originally Posted by IrishAnto

I find it laughable you’ve moved what I said about the Skins and Seahawks on to the Cowboys.

Clearly you’ve not got the ability to keep to a topic or point out where in my original post I mentioned the Cowboys.

But then I don’t expect much from you so I shouldn’t be surprised.

I'm sticking to the original theme of the thread, the one you are DEFENDING.

We'll keep tabs for next year, because if RGIII is out for an extended period, maybe we can analyze how great the Redskins oline is with Cousins behind center.

[IrishAnto]

Originally Posted by Oh_Canada

I'm sticking to the original theme of the thread, the one you are DEFENDING

Good boy. You do that.

[jterrell]

Originally Posted by Oh_Canada

I completely agree. However using the Redskins as some sort of example of a great oline are delusional. Take Griffin out of the equation and that's an ordinary line. Wilson got sacked five times yesterday, had that been Romo people would have been calling to replace everyone and Callahan to boot...even if Murray runs for 120yds.
My point isn't to improve the oline, but rather letting them grow organically and maybe adding an olineman in the draft (1-3 rd) or a decent FA. Some people think the Cowboys need to draft three lineman in order to improve and I just don't see it that way. Not at the expense of the dline and pass rush which I think are more important issues for this team.

I can't agree largely because Romo puts up just as good numbers ALMOST as Rodgers with an OL we are all constantly told is worse than most Pop Warner teams.

And the Giants won a SB last year with a bad OL.