Jerry improving as a GM?

[DOUBLE WING]

So just to be clear, in what I'm describing as Jerry's duties, he gets full credit for vetoing the Shawn Merriman discussion and going with DeMarcus Ware. That's an example of exactly what I'm talking about. His staff brings him options, maybe they even make a suggestion, but he has the ultimate decision based on their research/his own research/his gut/roll of the dice/whatever.

But if we're giving him props for that, I'm sure as hell hammering him on the myriad of dumb decisions he's made too.

[Hostile]

Originally Posted by DOUBLE WING

So just to be clear, in what I'm describing as Jerry's duties, he gets full credit for vetoing the Shawn Merriman discussion and going with DeMarcus Ware. That's an example of exactly what I'm talking about. His staff brings him options, maybe they even make a suggestion, but he has the ultimate decision based on their research/his own research/his gut/roll of the dice/whatever.

But if we're giving him props for that, I'm sure as hell hammering him on the myriad of dumb decisions he's made too.

He never has from me.

I gave that credit to Jeff Ireland.

[DOUBLE WING]

Originally Posted by Hostile

Right!!!! Final say.

But where you miss a little, is Tom Ciskowski is also part Ozzie Newsome. Meaning the analysis of personnel.

I don't think either of us can really say how much or how little Ozzie is involved in actual "breaking down the game tape" player analysis compared to Jerry. And I certainly would hesitate to say Ciskowski is any more involved than the equivalent people to him in every other organization in the NFL. The Ravens have 22 people in their front office/personnel staff, so it isn't just Ozzie in there pouring over hours of tape every day. But he is intimately involved in the process of what the team is looking for and what direction they're going to go based on his staff's research, just like I believe Jerry is.

[DOUBLE WING]

Originally Posted by Hostile

He never has from me.

I gave that credit to Jeff Ireland.

But again, that goes back to my point. Parcells says we want Merriman, Ireland says we want Ware.

Ultimately it's up to Jerry. He's the "tiebreaker". These guys can all suggest whatever they want. And while Ireland gets props for pushing for Ware, it's ultimately Jerry that gets the credit for a.) having a guy in that position smart enough to vouch for Ware's talent and b.) sticking with that guy's suggestion.

[Hostile]

Originally Posted by DOUBLE WING

I don't think either of us can really say how much or how little Ozzie is involved in actual "breaking down the game tape" player analysis compared to Jerry. And I certainly would hesitate to say Ciskowski is any more involved than the equivalent people to him in every other organization in the NFL. The Ravens have 22 people in their front office/personnel staff, so it isn't Ozzie in there pouring over hours of tape every day. But he is intimately involved in the process of what the team is looking for and what direction they're going to go based on his staff's research, just like I believe Jerry is.

You are right. I can't. I give him a lot of credit because I respect him so much. It is entirely possible that credit belongs to Eric DeCosta who is very highly respected around the NFL.

[Hostile]

Originally Posted by DOUBLE WING

But again, that goes back to my point. Parcells says we want Merriman, Ireland says we want Ware.

Ultimately it's up to Jerry. He's the "tiebreaker". These guys can all suggest whatever they want. And while Ireland gets props for pushing for Ware, it's ultimately Jerry that gets the credit for a.) having a guy in that position smart enough to vouch for Ware's talent and b.) sticking with that guy's suggestion.

Then you give him more credit than I do. I give the credit to Ireland and I don't see this as some huge veto because Parcells loved it.

[DOUBLE WING]

Originally Posted by Hostile

You are right. I can't. I give him a lot of credit because I respect him so much. It is entirely possible that credit belongs to Eric DeCosta who is very highly respected around the NFL.

Now I'm with you in the sense that just looking at it logically, it's fair to say we both assume Ozzie is more involved in that day-to-day scouting process than Jerry, right?

At the end of the day though, they both make the personnel decision. The difference is Ozzie is a lot more equipped to make that decision because I think we're both guessing he's down there in the bunker with his guys a lot more than Jerry is.

[DOUBLE WING]

Originally Posted by Hostile

Then you give him more credit than I do. I give the credit to Ireland and I don't see this as some huge veto because Parcells loved it.

It was a good call by Ireland to stick to his guns on Ware, but nothing happens without Jerry's approval and he ultimately had to decide "Ok, we're drafting Ware."

On that same token, I would bet there are handfuls of times where the same "pick one or the other" decision has come up and Jerry picked the wrong guy (looking at our team the last few years, I'm guessing that's been the case more often than not )

[Irving Cowboy]

Originally Posted by Hostile

Never trust a cockroach.

~shower~

I have now become the most hated Cowboys Fan in the world.

And it's not even close.

[Hostile]

Originally Posted by DOUBLE WING

Now I'm with you in the sense that just looking at it logically, it's fair to say we both assume Ozzie is more involved in that day-to-day scouting process than Jerry, right?

Sir, yes sir.

Originally Posted by DOUBLE WING

At the end of the day though, they both make the personnel decision. The difference is Ozzie is a lot more equipped to make that decision because I think we're both guessing he's down there in the bunker with his guys a lot more than Jerry is.

And from where I sit the difference is Ozzie reports to the Ravens owner who gives his approval. Jerry gets his report from Ciskowski and both are more equipped to make those analysis than the 2 owners.

[DOUBLE WING]

Originally Posted by Hostile

Sir, yes sir.

And from where I sit the difference is Ozzie reports to the Ravens owner who gives his approval. Jerry gets his report from Ciskowski and both are more equipped to make those analysis than the 2 owners.

The chain of command is still the same. Baltimore is Decosta > Newsome > Bisciotti (to sign the check).

Dallas is Ciskowski/Garrett/Stephen > Jerry.

But again, don't most GM's have final authority over personnel decisions written into their contract? (this is an actual question, I don't know for sure that ALL of them do, but I'd imagine so). So if Newsome brings it to Steve Bisciotti all he can to within the confines of the contract is sign the check, or veto it based purely off financial reasons. If he doesn't like what Newsome is telling him about the personnel, he can fire him.

[Hostile]

Originally Posted by DOUBLE WING

But again, don't most GM's have final authority over personnel decisions written into their contract? (this is an actual question, I don't know for sure that ALL of them do, but I'd imagine so). So if Newsome brings it to Steve Bisciotti all he can to within the confines of the contract is sign the check, or veto it based purely off financial reasons. If he doesn't like what Newsome is telling him, he can fire him.

Bisciotti can fire Newsome. For whatever reason. I don't think it has to necessarily be that he doesn't like what he is being told. I was actually wondering if he would fire him so he could keep DeCosta. Teams have begun snooping at him. I don't know what is in a GMs contract. I just know that the owners are all involved. The lone exception is Green bay which is a shareholders situation. Mark Murphy is the only non owner in the NFL who has "final say," and he can still be dismissed from his job. Ted Thompson, a great GM IMO, still has to report to him, and he still has to report to the shareholders.

[cowboysooner]

In all honesty, there are 32 different power structures around the league and how drafts and free agent signings are accomplished.

There are different levels of credibility among coaches and scouts when it comes to evaluations of different positions or different areas of the country.

Most of the Jerry gripes are in regards to the draft and honestly I think our "process" is pretty good there. I think Jones views Ciskowski as the smartest guy in the room. That is markedly different that an Atlanta draft room where their GM is a former scout, which is different from a Baltimore draft room where a former player is in charge, versus a New England draft room where Lord Vader is in charge.

So Jerry gets to be the guy that calls Mo Claiborne. Big deal. He spent his money and wants to ride the ride.

[DOUBLE WING]

Originally Posted by Hostile

Bisciotti can fire Newsome. For whatever reason. I don't think it has to necessarily be that he doesn't like what he is being told. I was actually wondering if he would fire him so he could keep DeCosta. Teams have begun snooping at him. I don't know what is in a GMs contract. I just know that the owners are all involved. The lone exception is Green bay which is a shareholders situation. Mark Murphy is the only non owner in the NFL who has "final say," and he can still be dismissed from his job. Ted Thompson, a great GM IMO, still has to report to him, and he still has to report to the shareholders.

But when you say Jerry isn't as involved as other GM's, you have to also acknowledge he's more involved than any other owner. It's a shaky middle ground that he juggles. That's the problem with him trying to wear both hats and play both roles. It leads to a lot of the issues this organization has had over the years.

[LatinMind]

Originally Posted by Hostile

He never has from me.

I gave that credit to Jeff Ireland.

Dont, Broaddus actually said last week on their show. That Jerry was the one that basically told Parcells sit down im taking Ware.