Is Norv really an improvement? - Dallas Cowboys Forum

FLCowboyFan · 01-08-2013

A part of me wants Norv to come here and relive the glory days but has this offensive system really worked anywhere lately?

San Diego seemed to put up big numbers until the end of the year and then falter as well. With Norv will we just get more of the same? I hope so but is there a better system for us to invest in? What are the other systems out there other than the West Coast system pioneered by Walsh?

DOUBLE WING · 01-08-2013

The scary part about Norv is that he'll be perfectly positioned to take over as head coach when Garrett fails.

StanleySpadowski · 01-08-2013

The biggest problem with the Coryell based systems are that they can be disrupted by aggressive DBs manhandling the receivers. There's going to be down games when the officials allow the muggings. Officials have a tendency to allow the players to play the later in the year it gets and in the playoffs.

It also doesn't allow for as much YAC as the defense can dictate the proper reads to be outs, comebacks and curls.

FLCowboyFan · 01-08-2013

That makes sense that we see it fail late in the year then. What system do the Patriots run? Green Bay?

weaver21 · 01-08-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by FLCowboyFan

That makes sense that we see it fail late in the year then. What system do the Patriots run? Green Bay?

I believe the Patriots run a spread offense. Not sure on Green Bay though.

Risen Star · 01-08-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by FLCowboyFan

A part of me wants Norv to come here and relive the glory days but has this offensive system really worked anywhere lately?

San Diego seemed to put up big numbers until the end of the year and then falter as well. With Norv will we just get more of the same? I hope so but is there a better system for us to invest in? What are the other systems out there other than the West Coast system pioneered by Walsh?

Let's put it this way. If Norv Turner was running our offense this past season absolutely nothing would have changed.

FLCowboyFan · 01-08-2013

I would love to hear from some of the knowledgable offensive minds on the board the various systems and their success and failure. Many of us have limited knowledge past Coryell and Walsh's west coast system. It is as good a way to speculate on what our changes will be as anything else :-)

cml750 · 01-08-2013

Norv would be a huge upgrade over Garrett as OC (who wouldn't be?) however I think Romo might fare very well in a West Coast Offense.

speedkilz88 · 01-08-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by StanleySpadowski

The biggest problem with the Coryell based systems are that they can be disrupted by aggressive DBs manhandling the receivers. There's going to be down games when the officials allow the muggings. Officials have a tendency to allow the players to play the later in the year it gets and in the playoffs.

It also doesn't allow for as much YAC as the defense can dictate the proper reads to be outs, comebacks and curls.

That never happened with Irvin.

FuzzyLumpkins · 01-08-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by StanleySpadowski

The biggest problem with the Coryell based systems are that they can be disrupted by aggressive DBs manhandling the receivers. There's going to be down games when the officials allow the muggings. Officials have a tendency to allow the players to play the later in the year it gets and in the playoffs.

It also doesn't allow for as much YAC as the defense can dictate the proper reads to be outs, comebacks and curls.

Sorry stan, I love your analysis but I am not buying this. When Coryell was doing his thing, DBs could ride receivers around the field anywhere on the field. Fouts played in that environment and flourished.

Physical play will beat the jam and even the minimal handfightng that is still allowed from time to time downfield. That's why we go after big WR like we do.

Rushing success does not correlate to wins but rushing attempts do. Our problem is that we abandon the run and I am not exactly sure that Norv would buck that trend. I haven't followed SD much.

TheCount · 01-08-2013

Over Garrett calling plays? Absolutely. I'm sure there are better options though.

cml750 · 01-08-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheCount

Over Garrett calling plays? Absolutely. I'm sure there are better options though.

Another year of Garrett calling the offensive shots makes me want to

.

NJ22 · 01-08-2013

Norv not an upgrade over JG as an OC...You are kidding right? He would be the best possible option. Mediocre head coach, and maybe the best OC. Maybe JG is a good HC, not yet, but maybe. He stinks as a game planner, play caller, game manager, game day adjustment maker. Before SD got rid of Sproles, Jackson, McNeil got hurt, they were one of the best, most diverse offenses in the league. JG would cut Sproles because he is short.

FLCowboyFan · 01-08-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJ22

Norv not an upgrade over JG as an OC...You are kidding right? He would be the best possible option. Mediocre head coach, and maybe the best OC. Maybe JG is a good HC, not yet, but maybe. He stinks as a game planner, play caller, game manager, game day adjustment maker. Before SD got rid of Sproles, Jackson, McNeil got hurt, they were one of the best, most diverse offenses in the league. JG would cut Sproles because he is short.

I know he is talented but systems die off when the NFL changes. Who has won a SB with the Croyill system lately? I was hoping others had more offensive knowledge and could share thoughts on the systems behind the coordinators. Not just act like I'm an idiot for asking about Norv who runs a better version of our Offense.

StanleySpadowski · 01-08-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by FuzzyLumpkins

Sorry stan, I love your analysis but I am not buying this. When Coryell was doing his thing, DBs could ride receivers around the field anywhere on the field. Fouts played in that environment and flourished.

Physical play will beat the jam and even the minimal handfightng that is still allowed from time to time downfield. That's why we go after big WR like we do.

Rushing success does not correlate to wins but rushing attempts do. Our problem is that we abandon the run and I am not exactly sure that Norv would buck that trend. I haven't followed SD much.

Players were able to beat the jam because they were used to beating the jam. In today's NFL, size matters over quickness and players throw up there hands and complain about contact rather than using it to their advantage.

The most successful Coryell receivers were either quick like Jefferson/Joiner or had a sense of using the defender's own aggression against them like Irvin (hand fight, hand fight, push off, who are they going to call). They also had the benefit of a TE to challenge safeties like Winslow and Novacek. I think Witten is top 5 all-time but we see LBs running with him all the time.

You can look but prior to the Washington game I said that if the officials took a let them play attitude, Dallas' offense was in big trouble. Watch the all-22, they let them play down the field and it threw off the timing. The few games a year the officials took that attitude are the few games that Romo, and by extension Dallas, really struggled.