A Dose of Reality

[honyock]

Nice post and I'm pretty much in the same boat as you with the Ryan move...I don't have strong feelings about it one way or another and more than anything am curious how the next week or two shakes out. You present a pretty good case that this may signal a move to the 4-3. I'm having to brush up on my "3-4 vs 4-3 personnel" brain, but reading posts all over the forum, it sounds like we aren't that far personnel-wise from fielding a decent 4-3.

[Reality]

Originally Posted by RS12

You are dancing around the real issues here.

There are plenty of other threads blaming Jerry and/or Garrett and there are plenty of people who agree. I really am not what you would call a Jerry or Garrett supporter as I really have no vested interest in either. I tend to focus more on the logical side which basically states that right now, Jerry is the owner and Garrett is the head coach and Jerry likes Garrett, so that is the way it is.

If Garrett were to be fired, I would be shocked but not disappointed or happy about it. That said, rather than dwell on things that are not options at the moment, I tend to look forward with what we have and what changes have been made. If more changes are made, I will gladly dance in more directions.

/reality

[HoustonFrog]

This firing would not have bothered me as much if I didn't feel Garrett was just as culpable as the OC for the poor performance. I just smell scapegoat and a knife in the back when I think about the D bailing out the O for many unproductive quarters and yet JG seems to continually come out clean.

[Doomsay]

Originally Posted by Reality

I think if anything, Jerry may be afraid to let him go too quick because of what I call the "slot machine" effect. Basically, if he lets him go and Jason goes elsewhere and has success, the media and even the fans will never let him forget it. If he lets him stay another year, he can at least say he gave him 3.5 years and he didn't succeed. After 3.5 years, it will be hard for him to regret the decision to move on and it will be hard to justify accusing him of a huge mistake in letting him go.

/reality

Do you think that factored in Jerry's decision to cultivate Jason as a head coach in the first place. E.G. didn't want to lose another Payton?

[Reality]

Originally Posted by honyock

Nice post and I'm pretty much in the same boat as you with the Ryan move...I don't have strong feelings about it one way or another and more than anything am curious how the next week or two shakes out. You present a pretty good case that this may signal a move to the 4-3. I'm having to brush up on my "3-4 vs 4-3 personnel" brain, but reading posts all over the forum, it sounds like we aren't that far personnel-wise from fielding a decent 4-3.

The problem is we really haven't had a nose tackle since we converted to the 3-4. We have had converted lineman playing nose tackle, but they wear down over the course of the season. Losing Ratliff and Brent, made us even weaker up the middle.

The thing about the 4-3 is that it will be easier to find depth for it and it takes the emphasis off of one key position, nose tackle. We have players on the team that can adapt to the 4-3 quite easily and others can with a little work and training. Those who cannot make or are really not suited to the change, can be let go and replaced by players who can.

I, for one, am ready to return to a 4-3 defense. I was excited about the 3-4 when Parcells brought it here, but I think with so many teams adopting it as their primary defense in the last several years, offenses are no longer at a disadvantage when facing it. If nothing else, it would be a change and right now, change is good when it comes to the Cowboys in any form.

/reality

[TheXFactor]

Originally Posted by Reality

The problem is we really haven't had a nose tackle since we converted to the 3-4. We have had converted lineman playing nose tackle, but they wear down over the course of the season. Losing Ratliff and Brent, made us even weaker up the middle.

The thing about the 4-3 is that it will be easier to find depth for it and it takes the emphasis off of one key position, nose tackle. We have players on the team that can adapt to the 4-3 quite easily and others can with a little work and training. Those who cannot make or are really not suited to the change, can be let go and replaced by players who can.

[View Full Quote]I, for one, am ready to return to a 4-3 defense. I was excited about the 3-4 when Parcells brought it here, but I think with so many teams adopting it as their primary defense in the last several years, offenses are no longer at a disadvantage when facing it. If nothing else, it would be a change and right now, change is good when it comes to the Cowboys in any form.

/reality

We don't have the Defensive ends for a 43 though unless we play ware and Spencer as stand up defensive ends, or draft/sign some

[honyock]

Originally Posted by Reality

The problem is we really haven't had a nose tackle since we converted to the 3-4. We have had converted lineman playing nose tackle, but they wear down over the course of the season. Losing Ratliff and Brent, made us even weaker up the middle.

The thing about the 4-3 is that it will be easier to find depth for it and it takes the emphasis off of one key position, nose tackle. We have players on the team that can adapt to the 4-3 quite easily and others can with a little work and training. Those who cannot make or are really not suited to the change, can be let go and replaced by players who can.

[View Full Quote]I, for one, am ready to return to a 4-3 defense. I was excited about the 3-4 when Parcells brought it here, but I think with so many teams adopting it as their primary defense in the last several years, offenses are no longer at a disadvantage when facing it. If nothing else, it would be a change and right now, change is good when it comes to the Cowboys in any form.

/reality

Yeah, Rat had a good stretch as an undersized NT but I wonder if he'd really be better utilized and have a longer shelf life in a 4-3.

[weaver21]

Originally Posted by TheXFactor

We don't have the Defensive ends for a 43 though unless we play ware and Spencer as stand up defensive ends, or draft/sign some

Ware can play defensive end. Hell, he did it in college and Dallas transitioned him into a 3-4 outside linebacker when we drafted him. It wouldn't be an easy transition, but I'm pretty sure Ware could learn to play the 4-3 DE position.

[TheXFactor]

Originally Posted by weaver21

Ware can play defensive end. Hell, he did it in college and Dallas transitioned him into a 3-4 outside linebacker when we drafted him. It wouldn't be an easy transition, but I'm pretty sure Ware could learn to play the 4-3 DE position.

He's played his entire career as an OLB, a switch at this point in his career would be extremely difficult. Maybe 3 or 4 years ago sure, but not now, it's a very different position

[CyberB0b]

Originally Posted by TheXFactor

He's played his entire career as an OLB, a switch at this point in his career would be extremely difficult. Maybe 3 or 4 years ago sure, but not now, it's a very different position

Ryan called a lot of over/under shifts which basically gave one olb or the other the same responsibilities of a 4-3 end.

[TheXFactor]

Originally Posted by CyberB0b

Ryan called a lot of over/under shifts which basically gave one olb or the other the same responsibilities of a 4-3 end.

Ware only went into a 3 point on passing downs. Playing the run from a 3 point is completely different from playing it in a 2 point

[cml750]

Originally Posted by Reality

The problem is we really haven't had a nose tackle since we converted to the 3-4. We have had converted lineman playing nose tackle, but they wear down over the course of the season. Losing Ratliff and Brent, made us even weaker up the middle.

The thing about the 4-3 is that it will be easier to find depth for it and it takes the emphasis off of one key position, nose tackle. We have players on the team that can adapt to the 4-3 quite easily and others can with a little work and training. Those who cannot make or are really not suited to the change, can be let go and replaced by players who can.

[View Full Quote]I, for one, am ready to return to a 4-3 defense. I was excited about the 3-4 when Parcells brought it here, but I think with so many teams adopting it as their primary defense in the last several years, offenses are no longer at a disadvantage when facing it. If nothing else, it would be a change and right now, change is good when it comes to the Cowboys in any form.

/reality

Nice write up in the OP. I agree 100% with the bolded part. Ryan did not impress me and I see no use for a 3 - 4 if the DC is not going to use it to blitz. I thought we upgraded the secondary so Ryan could dial up the heat. That never happened, hence I am glad he is gone.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by Reality

The problem is we really haven't had a nose tackle since we converted to the 3-4. We have had converted lineman playing nose tackle, but they wear down over the course of the season. Losing Ratliff and Brent, made us even weaker up the middle.

The thing about the 4-3 is that it will be easier to find depth for it and it takes the emphasis off of one key position, nose tackle. We have players on the team that can adapt to the 4-3 quite easily and others can with a little work and training. Those who cannot make or are really not suited to the change, can be let go and replaced by players who can.

[View Full Quote]I, for one, am ready to return to a 4-3 defense. I was excited about the 3-4 when Parcells brought it here, but I think with so many teams adopting it as their primary defense in the last several years, offenses are no longer at a disadvantage when facing it. If nothing else, it would be a change and right now, change is good when it comes to the Cowboys in any form.

/reality

The 3-4 has not worked here since its inception. I liked the idea and the flexability but for whatever reason it's always been our kryptonite, IMO.

[cowboyeric8]

Good post. Everyone should read it.

[punchnjudy]

Wasn't surprised by this at all. Thought Jerry might choose this path to avoid having to make too many changes in one offseason.

My guess is Jerry wasn't thrilled with Rob and figured he probably wouldn't be here past next season. He may have wanted to avoid having to replace an oc and dc (and the resulting personnel due to changes in schemes) in a single offseason. One way to avoid that scenario is to bring in a DC qualified to take over as HC next year should Red get fired. That way there's at least some continuity. If he fired Red this offseason, the next HC probably would have wanted to bring in his own DC, meaning Rob also would have had to go. Not endorsing that approach; just saying it might explain Jerry's actions (if indeed it was his decision). When he promoted JG and Campo, he mentioned continuity as one of the benefits so it has entered into his mental equations before. Of course, ego and liquor may be present in these equations as well.