Gosselin comments on the firings

[tyke1doe]

Originally Posted by Idgit

People were crying to fire him while he was a good DC. That's nothing new. See: Payton, Sean; and Garrett, Jason.

Once again, there's something about the culture in Dallas that stifles players and coaches, who go on to do better or become useful in other places.

[JPM]

Originally Posted by FLCowboyFan

Do you remember Zimmer posted as a dunce and run out of town? We didn't love him when we had him.

So was Payton when he was here with Parcells.

[StanleySpadowski]

Originally Posted by Shinywalrus

This thread will fall, unfortunately.

There are those who want to position the situation as though anyone in the media or NFL with knowledge or connections trusts Jerry and Jason, when this is clearly not universally the case. The backtracking on prior praise of Gosselin as one of the more connected and thoughtful outside voices will be amusing to watch.

I think most with a brain know what Gosselin is...a terrible source for opinion who used to put together a pretty decent final draft ranking. I don't think I've ever heard anyone refer to him as thoughtful.

[HoustonFrog]

What he said makes sense...too much sense for Jerry. It's about accountability and Garrett continually gets a free pass.

[Shinywalrus]

Originally Posted by StanleySpadowski

I think most with a brain know what Gosselin is...a terrible source for opinion who used to put together a pretty decent final draft ranking. I don't think I've ever heard anyone refer to him as thoughtful.

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king. He compares very, very favorably to all but a couple Dallas media members.

[ilovejerry]

Originally Posted by erod

The 3-4 got fired. Dallas hasn't played good defense since Zimmer ran the 4-3.

Thank you thank you.

[Yakuza Rich]

Originally Posted by erod

The 3-4 got fired. Dallas hasn't played good defense since Zimmer ran the 4-3.

That's untrue. We were 2nd in points allowed in 2009. IIRC, we led the league in sacks in 2008.

Mike Zimmer was never the answer. His defenses continually fizzled out each year. We had ONE good year under Zimmer, that was 2003. That was followed by one of the worst defenses in Cowboys history, 2004. These were both 4-3 years.

We resurrected a bit in 2005 using the 3-4. And then we were so exposed in 2006 because Zimmer couldn't figure out how to get a linebacker to cover somebody coming out of the backfield. He went to Atlanta the following year and STUNK.

He's done a solid job in Cincinnati, but he does have Marvin Lewis as the head coach. Either way, he wasn't good here and that's what matters.









YR

[Double Trouble]

Originally Posted by Risen Star

He lost credibility with me at the start when he mentioned the lack of a commitment to the running game.

When you have no talent up front to run the ball, you better have no commitment to it. I don't want to bang my head against the wall for 3 hours expecting stiffs to turn into players. If that's the hand I'm dealt, I'm committed to Romo carrying the offense. Win or lose.

Nothing he said was incorrect.

If the Cowboys were committed to running the ball, they wouldn't have tried it behind 4 guys who would look more at home in a semi-pro uniform.

[Yakuza Rich]

Here's Football Outsiders' Defensive Efficiency Rankings of the years. I've put the D-Coordinator and scheme in parantheses:

2000: Zimmer 4-3 (22nd)
2001: Zimmer 4-3 (20th)
2002: Zimmer 4-3 (13th)
2003: Zimmer 4-3 (5th)
2004: Zimmer 4-3 (25th)
2005: Zimmer 3-4 (12th)
2006: Zimmer 3-4 (14th)
2007: Phillips 3-4 (9th)
2008: Phillips 3-4 (9th)
2009: Phillips 3-4 (10th)
2010: Phillips 3-4 (27th)
2011: Ryan 3-4 (16th)
2012: Ryan 3-4 (23rd)

We had one really good year in the Zimmer 4-3. That was followed by an awful year the very next season. Then the defense was resurrected as it went to the 3-4. Then it was good under Wade for 3 years before it collapsed in 2010.

I'm not anti 4-3, but the idea we have never played well in the 3-4 is ludicrous.










YR

[Double Trouble]

Originally Posted by Yakuza Rich

That's untrue. We were 2nd in points allowed in 2009. IIRC, we led the league in sacks in 2008.

Mike Zimmer was never the answer. His defenses continually fizzled out each year. We had ONE good year under Zimmer, that was 2003. That was followed by one of the worst defenses in Cowboys history, 2004. These were both 4-3 years.

We resurrected a bit in 2005 using the 3-4. And then we were so exposed in 2006 because Zimmer couldn't figure out how to get a linebacker to cover somebody coming out of the backfield. He went to Atlanta the following year and STUNK.

He's done a solid job in Cincinnati, but he does have Marvin Lewis as the head coach. Either way, he wasn't good here and that's what matters.

I'm not a Zimmer fan, but he had very little talent on those teams pre-2005. His front 7 was mostly a Who's Not Who of the NFL. Then in 2005 he was switched to a defensive scheme that was not his own. Hard to indict him with the circumstances he was working under.

[xwalker]

Originally Posted by StanleySpadowski

I think most with a brain know what Gosselin is...a terrible source for opinion who used to put together a pretty decent final draft ranking. I don't think I've ever heard anyone refer to him as thoughtful.

Gosselin is also a Cowboy hater.

He is on the Hall of Fame voting panel. It is the local guys on that panel that are required to convince other voters to vote for their teams guys.

If you want to blame someone for Drew Peason and Harvey Martin not being in the Hall, start with Gosselin.

[lurkercowboy]

Originally Posted by xwalker

Gosselin is also a Cowboy hater.

He is on the Hall of Fame voting panel. It is the local guys on that panel that are required to convince other voters to vote for their teams guys.

If you want to blame someone for Drew Peason and Harvey Martin not being in the Hall, start with Gosselin.

The local paper where I grew up (Virginian Pilot) openly rooted for the Redskins. I subscribed to the DMN back in the late 1980s because I expected to get the same thing from the Cowboy perspective. What a shock it was to see how the Dallas media treats the Cowboys. Still the same today.

[Yakuza Rich]

Originally Posted by Double Trouble

I'm not a Zimmer fan, but he had very little talent on those teams pre-2005. His front 7 was mostly a Who's Not Who of the NFL. Then in 2005 he was switched to a defensive scheme that was not his own. Hard to indict him with the circumstances he was working under.

He had plenty of opportunity to develop talent in the 4-3 and didn't. Maybe that was part of the problem, getting talent in the 4-3. Remember all of those years we spent our first round picks on defense?

He's a very good coach at developing DB's, particularly corner. And usually gets a good 3-gap DT.

In his term in the 4-3, he had La'Roi Glover, Greg Ellis, Coakley and Nguyen, Roy Williams, Darren Woodson and Terence Newman. There was talent there.

And again, the 3-4 made the defense BETTER than it was under Zimmer outside of the 2003 season...where the defense still fizzled down the stretch.

Finally, as Bob Sturm mentioned...we were playing 4-3 down the stretch anyway and it didn't get us anywhere.

I wouldn't hate a move to the 4-3, but the idea that it was the godsend to this organization while the 3-4 never worked is untrue.






YR

[Merlin]

Originally Posted by Idgit

People were crying to fire him while he was a good DC. That's nothing new. See: Payton, Sean; and Garrett, Jason.

The common denominator is Dallas. Payton and Zimmer performed better when they left Dallas and its egomaniac owner who handcuffs his coaches.

[theogt]

Originally Posted by Merlin

The common denominator is Dallas. Payton and Zimmer performed better when they left Dallas and its egomaniac owner who handcuffs his coaches.

Not quite. Bill Parcells was who hancuffed Zimmer. Zimmer badmouthed him pretty good when he left. Example: forcing Zimmer to call base 3-4 defenses against 5 receiver sets.