Why Monte Kiffin? Why now?

[Soth]

I have been reading a few articles at blogging the boys. They are a lot more upbeat about the Ryan/Kiffin situation than I am, but they make some valid points. I would have posted the articles but it seems I am not allowed to post links (some post count rule I guess).

This is what they are discussing over there:

1. If you look at all the offensive/defensive rankings this season, the defense is in the bottom 15 range in a lot of categories. On the other hand, the offense is actually highly ranked in many categories. Our main issues offensively are turnovers (Romo?) and running game. Just by looking at the stats it makes a lot of sense to fire Ryan and retain Garrett. Obviously, this overlooks the injury problem.

2. We did not have a lot of other options at DC. Horton/Zimmer are under contract. Lovie wanted an HC job, etc. Kiffin was available and the team decided to pull the trigger. They could have waited, but it seems like the saw that as a more risky approach.

3. Kiffin was not successful at USC, but this may have been due to their lack of talent. The sanctions really hurt USC's ability to recruit talented defenders and this hurt Kiffin. Some posters are saying that the system was sound, but players simply lacked the talent to make plays.

4. Our corners will be a good fit for Kiffin’s system, specially Mo. You need corners that can redirect defenders and make plays on the ball, and they think Carr and Mo can do this (even if they are known as more of press/man coverage defenders).

5. Kiffin told Jerry/Jason that he thinks we have the players to run the system. He may be old, but he is qualified to make such a statement. He might also be trying to “sell” himself, so take this with a grain of salt.

This makes me feel a little better about the changes. I would have still preferred to see what Ryan could do in his third year with a healthy defense. But it is what it is.

[CyberB0b]

I keep seeing people post that Carr and Claiborne are "man press " corners. The cover 2 is predicated on the press. They will be fine.

[goshan]

We didn't score more than 10 points one time in the 1st half this year. We played from behind something like 73% of the time, which I believe was third worst in the NFL.

Yards don't mean much, and were piled up in the 2nd half when we went to a hurry up because we were behind all the time.

We were 15th in scoring (which is average), largely because we accumulated points in the 4th quarter in a hurry up offense that had nothing to do with the game plan.

The offense was not very good, and we were consistently out game planned by opposing coaches. The offense was at least as big of a problem as the defense, and Jerry has pretty much said as much in interviews.

If you don't think they are discussing short comings of the offense and changes they need to make there, you have not been paying attention.

[Wood]

Originally Posted by Soth

I have been reading a few articles at blogging the boys. They are a lot more upbeat about the Ryan/Kiffin situation than I am, but they make some valid points. I would have posted the articles but it seems I am not allowed to post links (some post count rule I guess).

This is what they are discussing over there:

1. If you look at all the offensive/defensive rankings this season, the defense is in the bottom 15 range in a lot of categories. On the other hand, the offense is actually highly ranked in many categories. Our main issues offensively are turnovers (Romo?) and running game. Just by looking at the stats it makes a lot of sense to fire Ryan and retain Garrett. Obviously, this overlooks the injury problem.

[View Full Quote]2. We did not have a lot of other options at DC. Horton/Zimmer are under contract. Lovie wanted an HC job, etc. Kiffin was available and the team decided to pull the trigger. They could have waited, but it seems like the saw that as a more risky approach.

3. Kiffin was not successful at USC, but this may have been due to their lack of talent. The sanctions really hurt USC's ability to recruit talented defenders and this hurt Kiffin. Some posters are saying that the system was sound, but players simply lacked the talent to make plays.

4. Our corners will be a good fit for Kiffin’s system, specially Mo. You need corners that can redirect defenders and make plays on the ball, and they think Carr and Mo can do this (even if they are known as more of press/man coverage defenders).

5. Kiffin told Jerry/Jason that he thinks we have the players to run the system. He may be old, but he is qualified to make such a statement. He might also be trying to “sell” himself, so take this with a grain of salt.

This makes me feel a little better about the changes. I would have still preferred to see what Ryan could do in his third year with a healthy defense. But it is what it is.

I think its clear by now Dallas was not having success running 3-4. Mostly because they never found Wilfork to anchor it. I thought it was Dallas undoing that they never really went after anchoring DT in setting up that defense but spent most of their time adding talent on periphery and never truly addressing the need for anchor.

[Wezsh0T]

Originally Posted by Wood

I think its clear by now Dallas was not having success running 3-4. Mostly because they never found Wilfork to anchor it. I thought it was Dallas undoing that they never really went after anchoring DT in setting up that defense but spent most of their time adding talent on periphery and never truly addressing the need for anchor.

The really stupid thing about this is that posters here have been saying for YEARS that we need a space eating NT. Why didn't we ever get one of those? I have no idea.

[Leadbelly]

I don't really agree with #3. The sanctions assigned to USC were basically 10 scholarships per year over three years (I think), starting in 2010. That still gives them approx. 20 per year (I think) and it's USC. They're going to get their share of top talent.

And then even if it were accurate, Kiffin gets a pass for failing to work around a loss of talent but Ryan gets fired. How's that work?

My hope is Kiffin's hiring and a move to a 4-3 Tampa-2 just seems crazy and unnecessarily drastic now, but in the future it will be viewed as the team's calculated belief that the 3-4 has inherent weaknesses vs a coming era of read-option offenses and a 4-3 Tampa-2 is better at limiting the strengths of the read-option (or any running QB).

[ABQcowboyJR]

Originally Posted by CyberB0b

I keep seeing people post that Carr and Claiborne are "man press " corners. The cover 2 is predicated on the press. They will be fine.

I agree. It all depends on how much traditional tampa 2 we run. Mo tackling is what i'm really worried about.

[erod]

Originally Posted by Leadbelly

I don't really agree with #3. The sanctions assigned to USC were basically 10 scholarships per year over three years (I think), starting in 2010. That still gives them approx. 20 per year (I think) and it's USC. They're going to get their share of top talent.

And then even if it were accurate, Kiffin gets a pass for failing to work around a loss of talent but Ryan gets fired. How's that work?

My hope is Kiffin's hiring and a move to a 4-3 Tampa-2 just seems crazy and unnecessarily drastic now, but in the future it will be viewed as the team's calculated belief that the 3-4 has inherent weaknesses vs a coming era of read-option offenses and a 4-3 Tampa-2 is better at limiting the strengths of the read-option (or any running QB).

The USC thing is simple. His idiot son has failed miserably everywhere he's been.

[newlander]

Originally Posted by Leadbelly

I don't really agree with #3. The sanctions assigned to USC were basically 10 scholarships per year over three years (I think), starting in 2010. That still gives them approx. 20 per year (I think) and it's USC. They're going to get their share of top talent.

And then even if it were accurate, Kiffin gets a pass for failing to work around a loss of talent but Ryan gets fired. How's that work?

My hope is Kiffin's hiring and a move to a 4-3 Tampa-2 just seems crazy and unnecessarily drastic now, but in the future it will be viewed as the team's calculated belief that the 3-4 has inherent weaknesses vs a coming era of read-option offenses and a 4-3 Tampa-2 is better at limiting the strengths of the read-option (or any running QB).

...as I don't buy the excuses people are making for Kiffin at USC either: completely assinine to suggest they didn't have the "talent" to run his defense. ....sanctions or no sanctions they have a glut of talent there. Secondly, I'd like to see how the bears and other tampa 2 defenses did vs. read option/pistol offenses like the skins, 49ers, etc.....

[erod]

Originally Posted by newlander

...as I don't buy the excuses people are making for Kiffin at USC either: completely assinine to suggest they didn't have the "talent" to run his defense. ....sanctions or no sanctions they have a glut of talent there. Secondly, I'd like to see how the bears and other tampa 2 defenses did vs. read option/pistol offenses like the skins, 49ers, etc.....

The Tampa 2 has nothing to do with defending the read option, any more than any other defense. The league just needs to adjust, as it did with the run-and-shoot, wildcat, west coast, etc.

And USC isn't sporting the talent they used to. Lane Kiffin is an idiot and a failure everywhere, and his old man couldn't save him.

[erod]

Originally Posted by Leadbelly

I don't really agree with #3. The sanctions assigned to USC were basically 10 scholarships per year over three years (I think), starting in 2010. That still gives them approx. 20 per year (I think) and it's USC. They're going to get their share of top talent.

And then even if it were accurate, Kiffin gets a pass for failing to work around a loss of talent but Ryan gets fired. How's that work?

My hope is Kiffin's hiring and a move to a 4-3 Tampa-2 just seems crazy and unnecessarily drastic now, but in the future it will be viewed as the team's calculated belief that the 3-4 has inherent weaknesses vs a coming era of read-option offenses and a 4-3 Tampa-2 is better at limiting the strengths of the read-option (or any running QB).

The talent level at USC has dropped, similar to Michigan, Tennessee, Miami, Colorado, Nebraska, Auburn, etc.

Before Carroll got to USC, the Trojans had been very average for a long, long time. Cheating works.

[jazzcat22]

Originally Posted by Soth

I have been reading a few articles at blogging the boys. They are a lot more upbeat about the Ryan/Kiffin situation than I am, but they make some valid points. I would have posted the articles but it seems I am not allowed to post links (some post count rule I guess).

This is what they are discussing over there:

1. If you look at all the offensive/defensive rankings this season, the defense is in the bottom 15 range in a lot of categories. On the other hand, the offense is actually highly ranked in many categories. Our main issues offensively are turnovers (Romo?) and running game. Just by looking at the stats it makes a lot of sense to fire Ryan and retain Garrett. Obviously, this overlooks the injury problem.

[View Full Quote]2. We did not have a lot of other options at DC. Horton/Zimmer are under contract. Lovie wanted an HC job, etc. Kiffin was available and the team decided to pull the trigger. They could have waited, but it seems like the saw that as a more risky approach.

3. Kiffin was not successful at USC, but this may have been due to their lack of talent. The sanctions really hurt USC's ability to recruit talented defenders and this hurt Kiffin. Some posters are saying that the system was sound, but players simply lacked the talent to make plays.

4. Our corners will be a good fit for Kiffin’s system, specially Mo. You need corners that can redirect defenders and make plays on the ball, and they think Carr and Mo can do this (even if they are known as more of press/man coverage defenders).

5. Kiffin told Jerry/Jason that he thinks we have the players to run the system. He may be old, but he is qualified to make such a statement. He might also be trying to “sell” himself, so take this with a grain of salt.

This makes me feel a little better about the changes. I would have still preferred to see what Ryan could do in his third year with a healthy defense. But it is what it is.

No thanks...I wanted him gone after 1 season....he couldn't do it even with healthy players. I was ok for him in his 2nd year, as his 1st, no mini camps, so hard to get things in place, needd better players too. But even with what he had was not impressive.
Without the injuries in his 2nd season, before the injuries, they still were not consistent or remotely impressive. A good game here or there, some very good defensive stances in a few games now and then. But overall body of work...he sucked...

[jjktkk]

Originally Posted by Wezsh0T

The really stupid thing about this is that posters here have been saying for YEARS that we need a space eating NT. Why didn't we ever get one of those? I have no idea.

They don't grow on trees, because their kinda fat. Seriously though, there are not many true DTs, like a Wilfork floating around out there.

[Misanthrope]

Originally Posted by Wezsh0T

The really stupid thing about this is that posters here have been saying for YEARS that we need a space eating NT. Why didn't we ever get one of those? I have no idea.

Jerry's an idiot, but it's not as simple as going to Space Eating NTs R Us, either.

[newlander]

Originally Posted by erod

The Tampa 2 has nothing to do with defending the read option, any more than any other defense. The league just needs to adjust, as it did with the run-and-shoot, wildcat, west coast, etc.

And USC isn't sporting the talent they used to. Lane Kiffin is an idiot and a failure everywhere, and his old man couldn't save him.

.....opinion about his kid. Hopefully the nut fell FAR away from the tree. Have to assume it did, as Monte was very successful with Tampa and other teams before that. I just hope his staff is strong: it will be interesting to see the next few weeks who is hired.