Kiper's all rookie team...

[SkinsHokieFan]

Originally Posted by visionary

this^^

luck should be ROY

Luck was turning it over in Rex Grossman fashion. It would be ridiculous to give him ROY when Wilson and Griffin COMBINED for fewer turnovers then Luck

[NIBGoldenchild]

Originally Posted by SkinsHokieFan

Luck was turning it over in Rex Grossman fashion. It would be ridiculous to give him ROY when Wilson and Griffin COMBINED for fewer turnovers then Luck

Consider the source of these opinions, defy common sense and choose anyone but the division rival.

[CowboyChris]

im gonna give it to Luck, i think he is already better than alot of QB's who have been in the league for awhile, and i agree he had less in place then RG3 and Wilson.

[Hoofbite]

Originally Posted by NIBGoldenchild

It will be RG3. PFW named him their ROY, and their selection and the AP one have been the same the last three years.

Is that indicative of prognostic powers or just the fact that the award wasn't nearly as hotly contested?

[NIBGoldenchild]

The notion that Luck was working with less is easily debunked by looking at the facts.

Luck had healthy receivers all year, he had a pro bowl veteran to throw to all season. He had a dynamic rookie WR that broke big gains off of short completions. Despite having the best WR group of the three candidates, he still made the most mistakes. You can't credit a guy for having a bunch of comebacks when he was the reason they were in a hole going into the fourth quarter in the first place. Poor decision making can't be explained away because he has a poor running game, better passers don't throw their first pass of a game directly to a LB for a pick 6. Better passers don't throw into double coverage when other WRs are open.

Wilson outplayed Luck by throwing more touchdowns on fewer attempts, having a better passing rating, all the while working with less talented receiving options.

RG3 outplayed Luck with his #1 WR and #1 TE both missing half the season, mediocre receivers that dropped more passes than Seattle and Indy's receivers. Meanwhile, the defenses fear of the read option allowed a sixth round pick to break the season rushing total in team history, and allowed mediocre talent to get open when they would otherwise remain covered.

To suggest that Luck did more with less, is to ignore stats, ignore what unfolded in the games, ignore the talent he had at WR, and choose the one player who you're least likely to see for the next decade.

RG3 > Wilson > Luck.

[NIBGoldenchild]

Originally Posted by Hoofbite

Is that indicative of prognostic powers or just the fact that the award wasn't nearly as hotly contested?

No idea, it could very well go to Wilson. This year is definitely a closer race than previous years.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Originally Posted by NIBGoldenchild

The notion that Luck was working with less is easily debunked by looking at the facts.

Luck had healthy receivers all year, he had a pro bowl veteran to throw to all season. He had a dynamic rookie WR that broke big gains off of short completions. Despite having the best WR group of the three candidates, he still made the most mistakes. You can't credit a guy for having a bunch of comebacks when he was the reason they were in a hole going into the fourth quarter in the first place. Poor decision making can't be explained away because he has a poor running game, better passers don't throw their first pass of a game directly to a LB for a pick 6. Better passers don't throw into double coverage when other WRs are open.

Wilson outplayed Luck by throwing more touchdowns on fewer attempts, having a better passing rating, all the while working with less talented receiving options.

[View Full Quote]RG3 outplayed Luck with his #1 WR and #1 TE both missing half the season, mediocre receivers that dropped more passes than Seattle and Indy's receivers. Meanwhile, the defenses fear of the read option allowed a sixth round pick to break the season rushing total in team history, and allowed mediocre talent to get open when they would otherwise remain covered.

To suggest that Luck did more with less, is to ignore stats, ignore what unfolded in the games, ignore the talent he had at WR, and choose the one player who you're least likely to see for the next decade.

RG3 > Wilson > Luck.

Opinions do not equal Facts.

Wonder why you did not throw out the RBs to support your opinions. Why did you not mention that all of the RBs in a colts uniform combined did not put up the numbers of one Lynch or one Morris.

Morris and Lynch were the number 2 and 3 rushing RBs in the nfl only below Adrian Peterson.

Morris with 1600+
Lynch with 1500+


Now you add all of the RBs totals (that is 4 RBs and one FB) and you still are only at 1378 rushing yards.

It is amazing what a young QB can do how and how much it helps the passing game when they have a reliable running back to hand the ball off to.

One other thing...Morris made a name for himself at RB with a stellar showing. Lynch already had a name for himself due to his career.

Unless someone watches the colts a great deal or goes and looks it up...most will not even know the name of the leading RB for the colts.

So...opinions do not equal facts.

[NIBGoldenchild]

Originally Posted by BrAinPaiNt

Opinions do not equal Facts.

Wonder why you did not throw out the RBs to support your opinions. Why did you not mention that all of the RBs in a colts uniform combined did not put up the numbers of one Lynch or one Morris.
.

I did mention his team's lack of a running game, it doesn't explain away his inconsistent decision making from the pocket. The best you can say about that is he possibly may not had as a low a completion percentage and as many interceptions if he didn't have to throw as often. But we don't know that, because it didn't happen, and you can't base rookie of the year off a woulda, coulda, shoulda argument.

I'm not saying Luck isn't a good quarterback. He is good, and IMO, he's going to be an all-pro one day. But I can't take my opinion of what he will be in the future and award him rookie of the year when two other players outperformed him.

[hra8700]

1. Why does anyone care what mel kiper says anyway?

2. Luck had no running game. He was asked to throw the ball downfield without play action. He had to run a full blown nfl playbook. He had no defense so he had to pass the ball a lot. No competition for roty imo.

3. I trust bill polian on claibornes performance more than mel kiper...

[Risen Star]

Originally Posted by BrAinPaiNt

Opinions do not equal Facts.

Wonder why you did not throw out the RBs to support your opinions. Why did you not mention that all of the RBs in a colts uniform combined did not put up the numbers of one Lynch or one Morris.

Morris and Lynch were the number 2 and 3 rushing RBs in the nfl only below Adrian Peterson.

Morris with 1600+
Lynch with 1500+


Now you add all of the RBs totals (that is 4 RBs and one FB) and you still are only at 1378 rushing yards.

It is amazing what a young QB can do how and how much it helps the passing game when they have a reliable running back to hand the ball off to.

One other thing...Morris made a name for himself at RB with a stellar showing. Lynch already had a name for himself due to his career.

Unless someone watches the colts a great deal or goes and looks it up...most will not even know the name of the leading RB for the colts.

[View Full Quote]So...opinions do not equal facts.

Nobody had the turnover of the Colts. At one point over 40 of the 60 or so players on their roster and PS weren't there a year ago.

Luck was surrounded by rookies and ran a big boy offense. He got hit more than any QB in football. No rookie QB was asked to do more.

They were 1-15 before him. 11-5 this year. Not with the 1st ranked rushing game in the league. The 22nd ranked. There just isn't a comparison of which QB has done more this year.

The best part of this is the gap will only increase from here. He's head and shoulders better than that athlete in Washington. It's an absolute insult to compare him to Luck.

[visionary]

Originally Posted by SkinsHokieFan

Luck was turning it over in Rex Grossman fashion. It would be ridiculous to give him ROY when Wilson and Griffin COMBINED for fewer turnovers then Luck

how about we take into consideration

1) passes attempted by each (in conjunction with interceptions)
2) running game

[Risen Star]

Originally Posted by hra8700

1. Why does anyone care what mel kiper says anyway?

Because he forgot more than you know.

[DFWJC]

Originally Posted by NIBGoldenchild

Consider the source of these opinions, defy common sense and choose anyone but the division rival.

There are many people on this forum that were following ( and becoming fans of) RG3 long before most Redskin fans had ever even heard his name.

[Risen Star]

Originally Posted by DFWJC

There are many people on this forum that were following ( and becoming fans of) RG3 long before most Redskin fans had ever even heard his name.

And there were people on this forum who thought he was a vastly overrated pro prospect long before the Redskins made the trade up to get him.

[DFWJC]

Originally Posted by Risen Star

And there were people on this forum who thought he was a vastly overrated pro prospect long before the Redskins made the trade up to get him.

That's right.

The point was that he was making it out to be a Cowboy vs Redskin agenda thing and, in this case, it is not.