Kiffin hire panned by scouts and execs

[cowboys#1]

he is too old.



its like giving a big contract to a 47 year old QB

[jjktkk]

Originally Posted by iceberg

yea, the worn out "jerry jones suck" security blanket that makes it ok to take pot shots at everyone on the staff.

gets old.

Like quite a few whiners. Even when positives moves are made, they will always find something to rant and rave about. Its their mission, to state the obvious problems with the team, and ingore any positive moves. A costant broken record syndrome.

[Wolfpack]

Originally Posted by Risen Star

My theory won't be popular but I think this is just scenery to distract the masses from what really needs to change in Dallas. We all know what it is. These sorts of changes can appease the fan base and make it appear like he's trying. He's too invested in Garrett to give up just yet, so the scapegoat was Rob Ryan with a side of Skip Peete. Next year it'll be Garrett. There will always be somebody to blame for the problem that was here long before they arrived.

Do I think they have a long term plan in place to bring this franchise back to where it belongs? No, I do not. I think they're winging it year to year and hoping something sticks. If not, well.....too bad.

I think you nailed it. It you look at the pattern of the Cowboy's roster & coaching moves over the last 17 years you will see the pattern not a very pretty picture and its not a clear pattern but it is a pattern. Its more of a tail chasing pattern and one of knee jerk reactions/reaches than anything else.

Just on the defensive side of the ball the last 10 years have brought 5 different schemes in. How in the world are the players suppose to excel when the scheme is always in flux. How is are the scouts suppose to find talent to fit a scheme when the scheme is always changing? At best, your current roster was always built for at least the previous scheme. Thats just the defensive side....

[Sasquatch]

Originally Posted by Risen Star

My theory won't be popular but I think this is just scenery to distract the masses from what really needs to change in Dallas. We all know what it is. These sorts of changes can appease the fan base and make it appear like he's trying. He's too invested in Garrett to give up just yet, so the scapegoat was Rob Ryan with a side of Skip Peete. Next year it'll be Garrett. There will always be somebody to blame for the problem that was here long before they arrived.

Do I think they have a long term plan in place to bring this franchise back to where it belongs? No, I do not. I think they're winging it year to year and hoping something sticks. If not, well.....too bad.

Hate to say it, but this resonates with me and mirrors my own assessment of the situation.

I hope I'm wrong, though, and am encouraged by the fight the team exhibited this year which was significantly different from years past. A sign that we're moving in the right direction? I guess we'll find out next year.

[CyberB0b]

Originally Posted by wick

A Tampa Two (Dallas Deuce?) defense is much more conducive to success in today's NFL.

Why are there only 2-3 teams in the league running the Tampa 2 then? You need players with a really unique skill set to play the Tampa 2 effectively, without glaring holes. Luckily, we have a couple of LBs who may be able to fit into the role. The rest remains to be seen.

[T-RO]

I Posted:

When Troy Aikman was asked about the Kiffin hiring he was "really surprised" and not in a good way.

DMN said that Troy sounded "perplexed" at the move.

Tony Dungy is certainly not going to denigrate Monte, but suggesting that it would take two years to transform the roster, which is nothing short of chilling when you consider how much the front office focus needs to be on the offense. Dungy said, "the Cowboys don't have what this system takes. That's why I will be curious to see what they end up doing."

Jeric Griffin of Rant Sports suggests the Kiffin hiring will ruin the next Cowboys draft, because we suddenly have needs all over the board.

The Daily Trojan website was nothing short of amazed at the Cowboys move. A quote, "In the three years prior to Kiffin’s arrival, USC defenses surrendered an average of 278.5 total yards and 14.9 points per game. Under Kiffin’s watch from 2010-12, however, USC defenses surrendered an average of 390 total yards and 24.9 points per game."

Always thoughtful Bob Sturm questions, "It makes you wonder if Monte Kiffin is prepared to deal with the division going through the zone read in Washington. The Tampa 2 is to slow down the West Coast offense and the greatest show on turf over in St Louis. How many times did Tampa have to deal with what we are seeing in 2012?"

Michael Taglienti at GridIronGrit, wonders how Kiffin...who couldn't stop spread offenses in his stops at Tennessee and USC...can cope with them in the NFL. Kiffin's defense gave up an average of over 600 yards when facing the Duck spread. Now the Duck offensive mastermind is with the Eagles.

Originally Posted by burmafrd

interesting how much of that is from USC. College. Means very little.

1. If college means very little then you could argue that Kiffin has been out of coaching for 3 years.
2. In college Kiffin could not adapt to the new dynamics that he was facing. His defenses were not good. Kiffin will now need to adapt a ton. He'll be teaching new personnel, much of it that doesn't fit his traditional scheme and facing a league with major new trends emerging.
3. In college Kiffin could not stop spread/option offenses.
4. In the pros now Kiffin will be facing spread/option (Pistol) offenses

[CyberB0b]

I think some of those are moot points.

For example, no matter what system you play in, our defensive line and safeties are not adequate. So, we would have the same holes, no matter what defense we run. It also doesn't help that guys like Carter and Lee can't play a full season without getting hurt.

[T-RO]

If we'd stayed with RRyan we'd had to address safety and DT. That's it.

Now?
1. Ware is going to have to adjust to having his hand on the ground and perhaps more importantly will be lined up inches away from 320 lb tackles. His forte is working in open space and using his speed...not mauling.

2. Spencer is undersized for the new position.

3. Our strength is CB and our weakness is safeties. Yet Kiffin's D needs the opposite.

4. We have nothing along the lines of a Warren Sapp.

5. We might need to consider bring in two new DTs...with bulk to compensate for the size of Ware and Spencer.

[Yakuza Rich]

Originally Posted by T-RO

1. Ware is going to have to adjust to having his hand on the ground and perhaps more importantly will be lined up inches away from 320 lb tackles. His forte is working in open space and using his speed...not mauling

Just like Simeon Rice who came from a...3-4 scheme before going to the Bucs.

And Ware's biggest strength is the bull rush. He uses his long arms and since he can get after the QB with the outside move, it knocks the OT off balance when he goes with the bull rush. His weakness is an inside counter. And, it's not like he always has to have his hand on the turf.

Again, same reason why Rice didn't struggle going to the 4-3 and neither did Charles Haley. Ware may not get those miscommunications amongst the opposing O-Line giving him a free run at the QB, but he's not dropping in coverage either.

2. Spencer is undersized for the new position.

Was Greg Spires undersized? Or Robert Mathis? They had no issues playing that side.

3. Our strength is CB and our weakness is safeties. Yet Kiffin's D needs the opposite.

That's not true.

Kiffin's defenses had excellent corners in Rhonde Barber and Brian Kelly. It had John Lynch at strong safety, other than that it wasn't much at FS between Damien Robinson, Dexter Jackson (huge bust at Arizona) and Sabby Piscatelli. Not exactly Paul Krause back there.

4. We have nothing along the lines of a Warren Sapp.

Do you know how good Jason Hatcher has been the last 2 years?

5. We might need to consider bring in two new DTs...with bulk to compensate for the size of Ware and Spencer.

We are more than set at DT. Ratliff, Lissemore and Hatcher are excellent fits at DT.






YR

[T-RO]

I have time for a couple of quick hits.

Originally Posted by Yakuza Rich

And Ware's biggest strength is the bull rush. He uses his long arms and since he can get after the QB with the outside move, it knocks the OT off balance when he goes with the bull rush.

It's one thing to have a bull rush when your first contact with the lineman is after a 3-5 step head start. It's entirely different when you have to generate that from a 1 step burst. Haley had an inside power move unlike anything I've ever seen from Ware. Rice an Mathis are interesting and more optimistic comps I concede. It seems to me at this point in his career that Ware has a difficult time disengaging. He can get swallowed up. (I'm not just talking about when he was playing hurt) That scares me a lot in the 4-3.

Originally Posted by Yakuza Rich

...but he's not dropping in coverage either.

Ware was in coverage less than 20% of time. And I think that helps a lot, IMO. The O-line can't anticipate who to block.

Originally Posted by Yakuza Rich

We are more than set at DT. Ratliff, Lissemore and Hatcher are excellent fits at DT.

Lissemore and Hatcher are ideally suited for DE in the 3-4. Lissemore is good backup. He isn't a difference maker. Ratliff is on the tail-end of his career. As it has been rightly commented...Sapp had left Tampa Bay when he was Ratliff's age.

[iceberg]

stop cherry picking, dude. it's getting highly annoying.

Originally Posted by T-RO

When Troy Aikman was asked about the Kiffin hiring he was "really surprised" and not in a good way.

DMN said that Troy sounded "perplexed" at the move.

what troy actually said: (and i never read "not in a good way" - this is your interpretation you're trying to sell off as fact)

“Really surprised with that,” Aikman said on WFAN-AM 660 in New York. “There, for many, many years, it had to be 3-4. That’s what they were about. And now, to bring in Monte Kiffin and go completely opposite, back to a 4-3 scheme. I think it’s interesting that they’re doing that in and of itself.”

Although Aikman sounded perplexed by the move, he was confident that DeMarcus Ware would continue to be productive as a defensive end in the new scheme.

“He’s going to excel no matter where he is, so I don’t worry so much about him,” Aikman said. “Just overall, and the way that they built this thing and then just to have a dramatic shift. And I don’t know that they’re done. I’m not sure that the changes are over yet.”

wow. how will we ever recover from such a scalding beatdown?????

Tony Dungy

is certainly not going to denigrate Monte, but suggesting that it would take two years to transform the roster, which is nothing short of chilling when you consider how much the front office focus needs to be on the offense. Dungy said, "the Cowboys don't have what this system takes. That's why I will be curious to see what they end up doing."

curious to see what they end up doing.
suggesting it could take 2 years to make the full switch. WOW. ANOTHER CRUSHING BLOW TO THE EFFORT!!!!

and kiffin has already said it would not be the tampa 2 as you know it. so stop the silly comparisons there, will you? (you won't, i know. but i have a dream)

Jeric Griffin of Rant Sports suggests the Kiffin hiring will ruin the next Cowboys draft, because we suddenly have needs all over the board.

not even gonna look this up. RANT sports? some nobody throwing crap on a wall? please.

not even gonna deal with the rest of the crap cause that's just you doing your stretch armstrong approach to support a swiss cheese agenda.

any REAL evidence to provide the pros are panning this?

didn't think so.

[xwalker]

Originally Posted by T-RO

1. Ware is going to have to adjust to having his hand on the ground and perhaps more importantly will be lined up inches away from 320 lb tackles. His forte is working in open space and using his speed...not mauling.

Here are screenshots of the 2012 Cowboys in their "3-4"

and

the 2012 Seahawks in their Kiffin inspired "4-3":

Note that Seahawks #91 is DE Chris Clemons.

[Yakuza Rich]

Ware has amazing strength as well. He uses his long arms extremely well. I could show plenty of YouTube clips of him bullrushing O-Linemen and just killing them.

One of my favorites, that I think I've only seen, but if you have video of the game I can point to when it happened was in the first game against the Redskins in the 2006 season. Ware, with ONE arm, heaves Chris Samuels 5 yards, flat on his back.

4-3 teams line up their DE's out wide all of the time. When the G-Men played us and we had Corey Proctor at Left Guard, they would line up Umenyiora well out wide and that would not allow Flozell to help Proctor out. And it left Proctor 1-on-1 with their DT who Proctor couldn't handle.

Everything I've read about the team not fitting in the 4-3 tends to come from guys that I question if they've watched the team because they don't know who Bruce Carter, Sean Lee or Jason Hatcher are.

Plus, Sims fits in the 4-3 and Albright is a prototypical SAM backer.






YR

[Doomsday101]

Originally Posted by cowboys#1

he is too old.



its like giving a big contract to a 47 year old QB

He is not playing the game and age has nothing to do with it. Dick LeBeau is older than Kiffin and he still puts a very good defensive unit on the field.

Maybe if younger players listened instead of running their mouth they may learn something from someone knows more about the game than they could ever dream.


It is notthing like giving a contract to a 47 year old QB because the coach does not play the game. Get a clue

[iceberg]

Originally Posted by Doomsday101

He is not playing the game and age has nothing to do with it. Dick LeBeau is older than Kiffin and he still puts a very good defensive unit on the field.

Maybe if younger players listened instead of running their mouth they may learn something from someone knows more about the game than they could ever dream.

It is notthing like giving a contract to a 47 year old QB because the coach does not play the game. Get a clue

most people saying "too old" i'd bet never knew his name until recently.

anyh port in a storm.