Tired of hearing Garrett losing power / Gruden on the Way

[Aven8]

Originally Posted by Risen Star

I would be happy. Gruden's got enough clout to force Jerry to back off in order to get him here. He's got prior experience and success working with a lunatic owner. He's still reasonably young enough to think he would be able to keep up with an ever changing league or won't get burnt out quickly.

He seems like the perfect fit here right now, to be honest. He thinks a lot of Romo too. I know this job would appeal to him.

I would be estatic as well. Don't forget he lives at the office as well.

Being bummed if we brought in a more experienced SB winning coach? Give me a break! I really, truly, don't get all the love for JG. Don't you guys want to win? Or keep your guy?

[Risen Star]

Originally Posted by Idgit

Most of those reasons are phantom reasons. I'm not sure how 'clout' is measured, but he's been sitting in a booth for an NFL lifetime. Working for Al Davis doesn't mean he's in any position to be more effective working for Jerry Jones. Dallas and Oakland are very, very different markets. He's famous for working hard and getting burnt out, and any coach who didn't think a lot of our best players isn't worth considering in the first place.

Pluse, we'd have to give up on the first coach in forever who's shown any signs of being able to work and put a system in place in the middle of the Dallas chaos in order to employ a retread with a history of wearing out his welcome with other teams' players and coaches. No, thanks.

Phantom reasons? That would be claiming Garrett's the only coach to put a system in place in Dallas. You couldn't possibly prove that.

I'm talking actual success. Not pretend this 8-8 is better than that 8-8.

You don't get Jon Gruden unless he has some serious control. That's the clout I'm talking about. He's not going to roll over and show his belly for a coaching gig like a guy like Jason Garrett would. He's got skins on the wall. Actual skins. Jon Gruden as our next head coach means less Jerry. Less Jerry always equates to more success on the field.

He has had success with an owner most like our own. How that is somehow irrelevant escapes me.

I disagree on the notion that any coach who doesn't like our top players shouldn't be considered. That is the bubble the Cowboys have gotten into. Where everything's much better than it appears and we're only a tweak away from profit. Whoever our best players are, we haven't been good enough. What I want from our next coach is an honest evaluation of our roster and the steps needed to fix it. If it means taking a step back initially, I'm all for it.

[Idgit]

Originally Posted by Risen Star

Phantom reasons? That would be claiming Garrett's the only coach to put a system in place in Dallas. You couldn't possibly prove that.

I couldn't, and I didn't say that. I agree, it would also be a phantom reason. I said Garrett was the first in a long time to do it in Dallas. You can make a good argument that Parcells did--though I consider us to have rented Bill Parcells for a few years. Before that, you'd have to go back to Jimmy Johnson.

Originally Posted by Risen Star

I'm talking actual success. Not pretend this 8-8 is better than that 8-8.

You don't get Jon Gruden unless he has some serious control. That's the clout I'm talking about. He's not going to roll over and show his belly for a coaching gig like a guy like Jason Garrett would. He's got skins on the wall. Actual skins. Jon Gruden as our next head coach means less Jerry. Less Jerry always equates to more success on the field.

I have no idea how much control John Gruden might hypothetically wrest from Jerry Jones. I suspect it's not any more than any other coach is going to be able to wrest from Jerry Jones. I think you probably need to just reconcile yourself to the fact that our owner is going to do things the way he wants to and nothing's going to change that. Certainly, I don't believe that a long-time network play-by-play man or color commentator is going to come in and change that. Not when there are other options available. I also don't think John Gruden's in much position to be demanding much of anything from any NFL owner who might consider hiring him at this point. I don't think the guy's exactly a hot commodity anymore.

Originally Posted by Risen Star

He has had success with an owner most like our own. How that is somehow irrelevant escapes me.

Well, I reject that Jerry is like Al Davis, and I reject that just because you work for one difficult personality it somehow makes you an Egomaniac Whisperer. The power structure between a GM/owner and a HC is imbalanced by nature, and there's not all that much a HC can do to alter that. Personally, I think Jason does a great job of managing around Jerry's ego and chaos, and I'd hate to see us lose that just because we're impatient with the rebuilding work on a flawed roster.

Originally Posted by Risen Star

I disagree on the notion that any coach who doesn't like out top players shouldn't be considered. That is the bubble the Cowboys have gotten into. Where everything's much better than it appears and we're only a tweak away from profit. Whoever our best players are, we haven't been good enough. What I want from our next coach is an honest evaluation of our roster and the steps needed to fix it. If it means taking a step back initially, I'm all for it.

That all depends on who you're considering a 'top player.' You know I agree with you that our roster isn't as good as advertised in some key positions. QB is not one of them, though, and any coach who can't see that probably can't see a lot of other important things that any good coach worth his salt really needs to be able to see. All that said, I'd agree that Gruden certainly understands what he's have in Tony Romo.

All that said, there are worse choices out there than John Gruden. I just happen to believe he's not likely to be a significant step up from Jason Garrett. What I ultimately want to see is a coaching dynasty in Dallas. I think JG is capable of that. I say that understanding that he hasn't demonstrated it the last two seasons. I don't really think John Gruden is. Gruden can build you a team that can compete for 4-5 seasons before needing to be disassembled. I'd rather take our chances with what we've got, or roll the dice on a coordinator or college guy who's got a chance to be the next long-term coaching prodigy.

Either way, I expect the team to make progress again this season, so hopefully the point of who replaces JG ends up being moot.

[Zordon]

Originally Posted by Risen Star

I disagree on the notion that any coach who doesn't like our top players shouldn't be considered. That is the bubble the Cowboys have gotten into. Where everything's much better than it appears and we're only a tweak away from profit. Whoever our best players are, we haven't been good enough. What I want from our next coach is an honest evaluation of our roster and the steps needed to fix it. If it means taking a step back initially, I'm all for it.

[fanfromvirginia]

Originally Posted by Idgit

I couldn't, and I didn't say that. I agree, it would also be a phantom reason. I said Garrett was the first in a long time to do it in Dallas. You can make a good argument that Parcells did--though I consider us to have rented Bill Parcells for a few years. Before that, you'd have to go back to Jimmy Johnson.



[View Full Quote]I have no idea how much control John Gruden might hypothetically wrest from Jerry Jones. I suspect it's not any more than any other coach is going to be able to wrest from Jerry Jones. I think you probably need to just reconcile yourself to the fact that our owner is going to do things the way he wants to and nothing's going to change that. Certainly, I don't believe that a long-time network play-by-play man or color commentator is going to come in and change that. Not when there are other options available. I also don't think John Gruden's in much position to be demanding much of anything from any NFL owner who might consider hiring him at this point. I don't think the guy's exactly a hot commodity anymore.




Well, I reject that Jerry is like Al Davis, and I reject that just because you work for one difficult personality it somehow makes you an Egomaniac Whisperer. The power structure between a GM/owner and a HC is imbalanced by nature, and there's not all that much a HC can do to alter that. Personally, I think Jason does a great job of managing around Jerry's ego and chaos, and I'd hate to see us lose that just because we're impatient with the rebuilding work on a flawed roster.




That all depends on who you're considering a 'top player.' You know I agree with you that our roster isn't as good as advertised in some key positions. QB is not one of them, though, and any coach who can't see that probably can't see a lot of other important things that any good coach worth his salt really needs to be able to see. All that said, I'd agree that Gruden certainly understands what he's have in Tony Romo.

All that said, there are worse choices out there than John Gruden. I just happen to believe he's not likely to be a significant step up from Jason Garrett. What I ultimately want to see is a coaching dynasty in Dallas. I think JG is capable of that. I say that understanding that he hasn't demonstrated it the last two seasons. I don't really think John Gruden is. Gruden can build you a team that can compete for 4-5 seasons before needing to be disassembled. I'd rather take our chances with what we've got, or roll the dice on a coordinator or college guy who's got a chance to be the next long-term coaching prodigy.

Either way, I expect the team to make progress again this season, so hopefully the point of who replaces JG ends up being moot.

Okay, I'm not on the same page with your argument but and for the Egomaniac Whisperer.

[CowboysPhan]

Originally Posted by fanfromvirginia

Okay, I'm not on the same page with your argument but and for the Egomaniac Whisperer.

I was about to say the same thing!

[Beast_from_East]

Originally Posted by BHendri5

Garrett will be the HC for the next 10yrs

Garrett will have the 2nd longest tenure in franchise history, just behind Tom Landry.


Of course he is barely a .500 coach and never even sniffed the playoffs......


But he will outlast evey head coach besides Landry, and even that is doable.

[Dodger12]

Originally Posted by junk

I don't think the Gruden thing is a possibility, but I am curious why they decided the Tampa 2 was the way they wanted to go. I'm sure the Chicago game might have had some influence, but it seems like an odd transition.

Just my opinion but I think this happens for a couple of reasons. First, Jerry's not going to pay Spencer, who's as good as gone, and we have no one on the roster to adequately take his place. By not signing Spencer and going to the 4 - 3, Jerry saves money and hides his draft day flaws and inability to find someone to replace Spencer and play opposite Ware. We also keep Ratliff who's under contract and draft a DT which is simplest solution.

If we stay with the 3 - 4, what are Jerry's options? Either pay Spencer who's been inconsistent, at best, or try and draft a 3 -4 OLB to replace him which he hasn't been able to do and you still need a DT.

When it comes to Jerry, just follow the money.

[johnnyd]

According to a "reliable team source," speculation that the Cowboys' recent coaching hires are a sign owner Jerry Jones is preparing to replace Jason Garrett with Jon Gruden is "ridiculous

https://twitter.com/Edwerderespn/sta...00047851175936

[big dog cowboy]

Originally Posted by johnnyd

According to a "reliable team source," speculation that the Cowboys' recent coaching hires are a sign owner Jerry Jones is preparing to replace Jason Garrett with Jon Gruden is "ridiculous

https://twitter.com/Edwerderespn/sta...00047851175936

[Rynie]

Originally Posted by Sandman

BTW- Jason will be the coach of the Cowboys for the next 10 years, not because of Jerry but because of Stephen Jones. Gruden doesnt fit with Cowboys and would will be a terrible hire.

Hey Nostradamus...can you give me this week's lottery numbers? I'll throw some flow your way.