Cuban/Carlisle/Dirk = Jerry/Garrett/Romo? - Dallas Cowboys Forum

egn22 · 01-26-2013

So all week i've been reading post after post, article after article on Garrett being stripped of playcalling duties, and how poor of a GM Jerry is. And how he undressed Garrett and made him his puppet.
And it made me think of the 2011 Dallas Mavericks.

For anyone who watches the Mavs, you'll remember that in the 2011 year, we had just gone 12 straight seasons of winning 50 or more games only to lose in the playoffs. Dirk was labeled a choker, soft, weak,etc. But it was agreed that the team wouldn't be a 50 win team if not for him.
(before you say it, i know Romo is no Dirk but stay with me)

Cuban was the biggest loud mouth owner in the league, he meddled and meddled and was always involved in basketball decisions. The year prior to this, he, Donnie Nelson, Rick Carlisle and even Dirk got together and made the decision to take a chance on an injury prone underachieving center who was entering free agency with limited interest. The center was Tyson Chandler.

Everyone knows what happened after that, but the point is that this wasn't the first time that Cuban was involved in the free agent acquisition process. He was always very vocal about his part of the decision making process. Sure he has Donnie Nelson as a GM but Donnie doesn't make the final call, Cuban does.

These guys got together and did what they thought was best for the team, and they put together a roster with guys like JJ Barea, Deshawn Stevenson, Brian Cardinal and after years and years and years of the media bad mouthing every decision the Mavericks made they won the dang championship. After years of the media bad mouthing Dirk, after sweeping the LA Lakers, and after beating the OKC Thunder the media still never gave us a chance to beat Miami in the championship. Even after winning two against Miami they still had us losing the series and it all stopped when Dirk made a few big shots and shut everyone the hell up.

Maybe, just maybe, i could be wrong but maybe Jerry and Garrett made some of these decisions together and maybe they're on to something. My point is, the media will NEVER be on our side. And the local media is even worse. I'm not reading into all of this talk about Garrett losing power and being a puppet and yadda yadda yadda, because if it works and the Cowboys start winning again, all of that talk seizes. Then we're talking about how great Garrett was for accepting the change and figuring out a way to work with this staff and in this system.

Some of these media guys are getting way too comfortable acting like they're so certain that they know whats best for the Cowboys. They're so certain that Jerry is wrong on every move he makes, and everything they say is negative. There's no hope with Jerry as GM... bullcrap. It's possible. It might not be the most ideal situation but its possible.

Remember how great Philly's front office was supposed to be? how frugal they were, and how great they were at assembling talent. How strong their coach was, how despite never winning jack spit, they were so far ahead of the Cowboys. Remember that? Remember the media echoing these sentiments?

I'm a die hard fan, and i'm rolling with the changes Jerry's making. I'm hoping it works out, I don't give a crap what Gruden is doing these days because our staff is in place. Let's see what happens. But why not stop worrying so much about egos and who's feelings are hurt about being "demoted" or whatever. Maybe Garret's a big boy and he and Jerry have reached an agreement on where this thing is headed.

It will be interesting.

Venger · 01-26-2013

Um, no.

The closest comparison would be Dirk - Romo. Dirk got no respect until he won the ring, always was said he was the kind of player that couldn't get your team a ring.

Carlisle has an impressive resume as a coach and a track record of success before he came to Dallas.

It's enticing to compare Cuban to Jerry, Cuban loves being on the sideline, loves being involved, but Cuban is far, FAR more reliant on smart basketball talent and doesn't inject himself into personnel anywhere near the same level as Jerry does. Cuban learned his lesson quick and early - he brought in Dennis Rodman, and that cured him of that nonsense.

Cuban wants to win, as does Jerry, but Cuban doesn't care if he gets credit, he knows he will get some regardless of how. Jerry has to land the plane at the controls or the flight doesn't arrive, according to him.

IAMKING · 01-26-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by Venger

Um, no.

The closest comparison would be Dirk - Romo. Dirk got no respect until he won the ring, always was said he was the kind of player that couldn't get your team a ring.

Carlisle has an impressive resume as a coach and a track record of success before he came to Dallas.

It's enticing to compare Cuban to Jerry, Cuban loves being on the sideline, loves being involved, but Cuban is far, FAR more reliant on smart basketball talent and doesn't inject himself into personnel anywhere near the same level as Jerry does. Cuban learned his lesson quick and early - he brought in Dennis Rodman, and that cured him of that nonsense.

Cuban wants to win, as does Jerry, but Cuban doesn't care if he gets credit, he knows he will get some regardless of how. Jerry has to land the plane at the controls or the flight doesn't arrive, according to him.

/thread

Jake0 · 01-26-2013

Yeah.. lets not ever compare a quality coach like Carlisle who has plenty of skins on the wall and was never ever undermined or doubted at all by Cuban to a hack like Garrett ever again. Carlisle actually is a brilliant basketball mind and doesn't just get the perceived notion from where he went to school.

Like Barkley said about the Lakers' Princeton offense they were running earlier this year, "I want my accountant to be from Princeton, not my basketball offense."

For someone who's supposedly so brilliant, I've seen too many Cowboy games where Garrett just looks like a complete buffoon on the sidelines. Just my opinion.

egn22 · 01-26-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by Venger

Um, no.

The closest comparison would be Dirk - Romo. Dirk got no respect until he won the ring, always was said he was the kind of player that couldn't get your team a ring.

Carlisle has an impressive resume as a coach and a track record of success before he came to Dallas.

It's enticing to compare Cuban to Jerry, Cuban loves being on the sideline, loves being involved, but Cuban is far, FAR more reliant on smart basketball talent and doesn't inject himself into personnel anywhere near the same level as Jerry does. Cuban learned his lesson quick and early - he brought in Dennis Rodman, and that cured him of that nonsense.

Cuban wants to win, as does Jerry, but Cuban doesn't care if he gets credit, he knows he will get some regardless of how. Jerry has to land the plane at the controls or the flight doesn't arrive, according to him.

i'm not comparing Garrett to Carlisle in terms of coaching talent, you're missing the point, and please don't mistake me for a Garrett fan because i'm far from that.

I'm comparing the ways they've made decisions in the past which included input from Cuban, Donnie, and Carlisle. They've worked together to make numerous basketball decisions, and Cuban is an internet nerd, far from a basketball guy.

As far as Cuban's involvement, who was the guy blabbering to the media about the CBA and how its changed the way teams will do business in free agency? Cuban took every chance he could in the off season to explain how he's making personnel decisions based on salaries, and the salary cap.
Why do you think we disbanded a championship roster that included Tyson Chandler who's now positioned the Knicks to be one of the top 3 teams in the east?
That was Jerr...umm i mean Cuban!

rickjameschinaclub · 01-26-2013

Love basketball and that run by Dirk, was one of the greatest shows I've ever seen by an individual player. Amazing...

Zordon · 01-26-2013

The Dirk vs Romo comparisons are pretty apt. Although I will say Dirk is now viewed as an all-time great player. Even if Romo were to win a Super Bowl, I doubt he'd be viewed as a top 30 player like Dirk is.

jason54858 · 01-26-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zordon

The Dirk vs Romo comparisons are pretty apt. Although I will say Dirk is now viewed as an all-time great player. Even if Romo were to win a Super Bowl, I doubt he'd be viewed as a top 30 player like Dirk is.

If Dirk didn't when a championship he would have been an all time player. Romo would have to win a couple to even considered. Not a spot on comparison IMO, but a decent one I guess.

egn22 · 01-26-2013

I guess I did a poor job of emphasizing that this isn't about comparing talent, its about comparing the perception by the media of what is going on behind closed doors by management. in the Mavs case, the media attention both national and local was almost always negative. They always did something wrong according to the media. Same thong with the cowboys.
And when the Mavs proved everyone wrong, of course everyone forgot about all of the things that were wrong with the team.my point is that the media does a fantastic job of convincing us that they have it all figured out, when alot of the time its just fodder to try top remain relevant.

CowboysYanksLakers · 01-26-2013

Dirk owns a championship and is a better player compared to Romo their respective sports.

DFWJC · 01-26-2013

I don't think so.

Excuse that I haven't read this whole thread, but just wanted to chime in here.

Cuban hires the best people and lets them do their jobs. He may be a marketer who's in the news more than some would like, but he and Jerry have little in common regarding mangement styles. I do not think Cuban was as involved in basketball decisions as you say. I've been around him and the team in variaous degrees since he came here. Donnie (and Don)Nelson and the coaches too care of the vast majority of basketball decisions.
Cuban had veto rights.

Carlisle is far more advanced as a head coach and as a strategist than Garrett--and I'm not even a Garrett basher.

Dirk and Romo are the most similar (before the ring for Dirk) in how much they were unfairly bashed for the overall team's failures. But even then, Dirk was much more accomplished than Tony even before the ring. He was an absolute warrior in the playoffs--and his team was in the playoffs every year and made deep runs several times. His playoffs stats are some of the best in NBA history even before he tore the NBA a new one in that title run.

So that is 0 for 3.

Sorry man.

I just read your later post....I do agree that some in the media have drawn some parallels--especially reagrding Cuban/Dirk and Jerry/Tony. They were wrong, but they did do some of that.

egn22 · 01-26-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by DFWJC

I don't think so.

Excuse that I haven't read this whole thread, but just wanted to chime in here.

Cuban hires the best people and lets them do their jobs. He may be a marketer who's in the news more than some would like, but he and Jerry have little in common regarding mangement styles. I do not think Cuban was as involved in basketball decisions as you say. I've been around him and the team in variaous degrees since he came here. Donnie (and Don)Nelson and the coaches too care of the vast majority of basketball decisions.
Cuban had veto rights.

Carlisle is far more advanced as a head coach and as a strategist than Garrett--and I'm not even a Garrett basher.

[View Full Quote]

Again not comparing talent. And Cuban is a decision maker whether you choose to believe that or not. Cuban wanted to clear the cap space to try to sign deron Williams. Cuban still wants to keep the cap clear to sign Dwight Howard. He's also on record saying that he was looking to sign talented players to low cost one year deals, and that's what Collison, Kaman, Brand, & Mayo got. That's pretty involved, how much more involved could he be? How is this different from Jerry?

DFWJC · 01-26-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by egn22

Again not comparing talent. And Cuban is a decision maker whether you choose to believe that or not. Cuban wanted to clear the cap space to try to sign deron Williams. Cuban still wants to keep the cap clear to sign Dwight Howard. He's also on record saying that he was looking to sign talented players to low cost one year deals, and that's what Collison, Kaman, Brand, & Mayo got. That's pretty involved, how much more involved could he be? How is this different from Jerry?

Yes. An owner does get to decide how much to spend on contracts. That is a big part of his job is to sign the checks. He also has to sign off on long term plans that effect spending.

Cuban, Carlisle, and Nelson all sat down and came up with a short and long term plan regarding all salary cap ramifications and personnel. The actual personnel choices were on Nelson, Carlisle and then Cuban...in that order.

The amount to spend was Nelson, Cuban, Carlisle. They have an open checkbook (but restrcited by the cap) but have full knowldege of the short and long term effects.

I personally did not like how they handled it, but that's beside the point. Cuban does not choose the personal or the assistants under the HC. He and Nellie chose Carlisle and Carlise had 1st choice of his assistants, but with Cuban having to sign off on price.

Carlisle has full control of Head Coaching duties.

BlueStar22 · 01-26-2013

Mavs won a championship. No comparison.

egn22 · 01-26-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueStar22

Mavs won a championship. No comparison.

Jerry won 3. Ready to discuss the actual topic or shall we continue tossing out random facts?