Cuban/Carlisle/Dirk = Jerry/Garrett/Romo?

[egn22]

Originally Posted by DFWJC

Yes. An owner does get to decide how much to spend on contracts. That is a big part of his job is to sign the checks. He also has to sign off on long term plans that effect spending.

Cuban, Carlisle, and Nelson all sat down and came up with a short and long term plan regarding all salary cap ramifications and personnel. The actual personnel choices were on Nelson, Carlisle and then Cuban...in that order.

The amount to spend was Nelson, Cuban, Carlisle. They have an open checkbook (but restrcited by the cap) but have full knowldege of the short and long term effects.

I personally did not like how they handled it, but that's beside the point. Cuban does not choose the personal or the assistants under the HC. He and Nellie chose Carlisle and Carlise had 1st choice of his assistants, but with Cuban having to sign off on price.

Carlisle has full control of Head Coaching duties.

I appreciate what you're saying but I disagree. Carlisle never expressed an interest in letting Chandler walk. He really wanted kidd too, but the Chandler situation convinced kidd he needed to walk too. Dirk want on board with this strategy either. This was more of Cuban trying to outsmart the league than anything else.we cam agree to disagree but I certainly see similarities in both the owner/coach relationship and the way the media has reported on both organizations.

[DFWJC]

Originally Posted by egn22

I appreciate what you're saying but I disagree. Carlisle never expressed an interest in letting Chandler walk. He really wanted kidd too, but the Chandler situation convinced kidd he needed to walk too. Dirk want on board with this strategy either. This was more of Cuban trying to outsmart the league than anything else.we cam agree to disagree but I certainly see similarities in both the owner/coach relationship and the way the media has reported on both organizations.

FWIW, they ALL wanted Kidd.
It was Kidd who backed out of his handshake deal to stay. That's why Cuban joked that he wouldn't retire his hersey in Dallas now, becasue he went back on his word.

I'm not 100% sure on Chandler. My understanding was that they all wanted him too but they laid out the dollars and it was decided to spend the money elsewhere. Ticked me off...but that's just me.
Maybe Carlisle got out-voted 2-1. If so, you are correct there.

[Chocolate Lab]

Carlisle is a jillion times better than Garrett. Carlisle is a truly great coach, a rare difference-maker.

Garrett is more akin to Avery. Except maybe not even that good.

I do think Cuban and Jerry are a fair comparison. Both are loudmouthed attention queens who get way too involved in personnel. The difference is that in basketball, one great player makes more of a difference than it does in football, and the Mavs had Dirk.

[Clove]

Dirk and Romo are NOT similar, please stop this atrocity. Dirk went to an NBA finals (Super Bowl equivalent) and won tons of playoff games "BEFORE' actually and finally winning a championship. Plenty of winning before winning the big one. On the other hand, Romo has done NONE, NONE, NONE of that.

Please do your research before throwing mess against the wall.

[egn22]

Originally Posted by Chocolate Lab

Carlisle is a jillion times better than Garrett. Carlisle is a truly great coach, a rare difference-maker.

Garrett is more akin to Avery. Except maybe not even that good.

I do think Cuban and Jerry are a fair comparison. Both are loudmouthed attention queens who get way too involved in personnel. The difference is that in basketball, one great player makes more of a difference than it does in football, and the Mavs had Dirk.

Off topic again. Not comparing coaching talent. Never claimed Garrett was equal to Carlisle. i'm talking about the media and how they manipulate the truth.

[egn22]

Originally Posted by Clove

Dirk and Romo are NOT similar, please stop this atrocity. Dirk went to an NBA finals (Super Bowl equivalent) and won tons of playoff games "BEFORE' actually and finally winning a championship. Plenty of winning before winning the big one. On the other hand, Romo has done NONE, NONE, NONE of that.

Please do your research before throwing mess against the wall.

reading is fundamental. Reading comprehension is even more vital. Read the initial post again and you'll realize your argument doesn't apply here. No mess was thrown as the media influence is alive and well. Check the most recent threads on this board and see for yourself.

[RastaRocket]

Originally Posted by egn22

Off topic again. Not comparing coaching talent. Never claimed Garrett was equal to Carlisle. i'm talking about the media and how they manipulate the truth.

I agree with what your saying, but I disagree that the Cowboys are similar to the Mavs. Jerry and Cuban are very similar from a perspective that they love everything about the team they own. They enjoy being a part of everything, and a sports franchise isn't necessarily just an investment for them. However, I think Cuban is much more different than Jerry in terms of how involved they are. I completely agree about the whole media thing though; the media will never be on anybody's side unless they are winning. Hell, the Giants won a superbowl and Eli still sucked up until last year when they hopped on the bandwagon. I think the media overstates Jerry's involvement as well, as well as Cuban.

I do always think of that Mavs run though when I think about the Cowboys. I think we are headed in a positive direction and eventually we will get ours. One huge difference between the Mavericks and Cowboys is that the Mavericks have consistently dominated the regular season for over a decade while the Cowboys have been inconsistent. Romo and the Cowboys have no identity yet and the Mavericks and Dirk have at least always had an identity.

[Jake0]

How do you know the decision to free cap space by letting players like Chandler walk was exclusively a Cuban decision without any consultation with Carlisle? I never got that impression.

The situation is obvious, the team won a championship at the perfect time. The Heat just formed the big 3, OKC's young players are getting better every year (Durant, Westbrook, Ibaka, Harden at the time), tons of other teams with young and up and coming players are about to start hitting their strides while the Mavs are full of old people on the decline. Everyone knew the team would not hold up with that lineup in the coming years.

The choice is obvious that they needed a Dwight Howard or Deron Williams type superstar to pair with Dirk to even have a chance against the teams like Miami and OKC with multiple superstars. It was a risk but the risk was fine and Cuban wasn't a meddling owner trying to be GM in the situation so I don't personally see the correlation. Chandler was a very good fit but he was due for a huge payday after that deal that wouldn't allow the cap space to sign a superstar and the team would not be championship caliber in the coming years with him.

IMO the Cowboys type thing (as of late at least) to do in this situation would be to keep your aging vets for their high price as they deteriorate and stay in the perpetual mediocrity of barely missing or making the playoffs and getting knocked out early.

[DFWJC]

Originally Posted by Jake0

How do you know the decision to free cap space by letting players like Chandler walk was exclusively a Cuban decision without any consultation with Carlisle? I never got that impression.

.

You are right. It was not. It was a group decision and a very difficult one.
Cuban was up for keeping the whole group though both he, and especially Nelson, spelled out valid reasons why that could be crippling for many years to come.
It sure would have been fun to see what they could do though--especially in hindsite.

I see the point of the thread though. It's mostly regarding media perception--right or otherwise.

[coogrfan]

Originally Posted by Venger

Cuban wants to win, as does Jerry, but Cuban doesn't care if he gets credit, he knows he will get some regardless of how. Jerry has to land the plane at the controls or the flight doesn't arrive, according to him.

...

Well said, sir.

[egn22]

Originally Posted by RastaRocket

I agree with what your saying, but I disagree that the Cowboys are similar to the Mavs. Jerry and Cuban are very similar from a perspective that they love everything about the team they own. They enjoy being a part of everything, and a sports franchise isn't necessarily just an investment for them. However, I think Cuban is much more different than Jerry in terms of how involved they are. I completely agree about the whole media thing though; the media will never be on anybody's side unless they are winning. Hell, the Giants won a superbowl and Eli still sucked up until last year when they hopped on the bandwagon. I think the media overstates Jerry's involvement as well, as well as Cuban.

[View Full Quote]I do always think of that Mavs run though when I think about the Cowboys. I think we are headed in a positive direction and eventually we will get ours. One huge difference between the Mavericks and Cowboys is that the Mavericks have consistently dominated the regular season for over a decade while the Cowboys have been inconsistent. Romo and the Cowboys have no identity yet and the Mavericks and Dirk have at least always had an identity.

good point about the identity, that's spot on.
And i'm glad you feel we're moving in the right direction. I'm tired of the Debbie downers. That's all i'm saying, maybe its not what the media is trying to force feed us. Maybe there's more to it than Garrett just sitting to the side playing the puppet role.

[egn22]

Originally Posted by DFWJC

You are right. It was not. It was a group decision and a very difficult one.
Cuban was up for keeping the whole group though both he, and especially Nelson, spelled out valid reasons why that could be crippling for many years to come.
It sure would have been fun to see what they could do though--especially in hindsite.

I see the point of the thread though. It's mostly regarding media perception--right or otherwise.

Media perception, and the assumption that our coach is nothing more than a puppet. If we win, watch how fast they jump on his Jock. the puppet story is just so worn out. I'm not a Garrett fan but enough is enough.

[RastaRocket]

Originally Posted by egn22

good point about the identity, that's spot on.
And i'm glad you feel we're moving in the right direction. I'm tired of the Debbie downers. That's all i'm saying, maybe its not what the media is trying to force feed us. Maybe there's more to it than Garrett just sitting to the side playing the puppet role.

We've really only been establishing a young core around Romo for about 3 years now. There is no doubt that we have a talented team in Dallas. I feel as if we are 1-2 drafts away from having a core that is able to contend. Of course, it's only if we make good decisions. I have been pretty happy with our drafting under JG, now the only thing I hope for is we are done trading up to get players. I am happy we have Mo and Dez on this team, but I feel like depth is the most pressing issue. Just keep our picks or trade down and we should be OK.

[Alweezy]

Originally Posted by egn22

Off topic again. Not comparing coaching talent. Never claimed Garrett was equal to Carlisle. i'm talking about the media and how they manipulate the truth.

The reason why everyone keeps making comparisons to the talent is because this thread in principle is a comparison of talent. What's to talk about in terms of comparing the way the media gives neither team a chance unless you show the differences in the two situations?


when it comes to one team going to the playoffs every year and another struggling to be a wild card, there's a reason.

When it comes to one player constantly being called a choker and another ridding himself of that label forever, there's a reason.

When it comes to foolishly expressing doubt towards a coach that has skins on the wall and doubting a coach that is learning as he goes.. there's a reason the articles are what they are.

The media will doubt every team in every sport. That is nothing new. Have the Cowboys done anything in the past 10 years to prove the media wrong? Nope, and until they do, this proving the world wrong next year storyline is old,trite and predictable. Let me know when the Cowboys strenghten their biggest weakness in the offseason, the coach gets some skins on the wall, and the owner figures out he can't be the star and the media is STILL busting their chops? Then we might have room to be upset.

[coogrfan]

Originally Posted by RastaRocket

We've really only been establishing a young core around Romo for about 3 years now. There is no doubt that we have a talented team in Dallas. I feel as if we are 1-2 drafts away from having a core that is able to contend. Of course, it's only if we make good decisions. I have been pretty happy with our drafting under JG, now the only thing I hope for is we are done trading up to get players. I am happy we have Mo and Dez on this team, but I feel like depth is the most pressing issue. Just keep our picks or trade down and we should be OK.

You sure about that?

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/dallas...s.php?t=252084