Watkins ranks our roster...

[sbark]

I'll state the obvious

........ if our roster didnt drop off after the teens..........we'd probably have advanced at least into the playoffs.....at least once of the last couple yrs.

His rankings are indicitave of our record the last few years.

[Picksix]

Originally Posted by RS12

Who said this roster was loaded with talent?

The media, whether it's coming straight from them, or they're quoting other coaches/players. I hear it from people I talk with about the Cowboys. Also, people on this forum (and other forums), when they rip Garrett for not doing enough with all the supposed talent we have.

[Hoofbite]

Originally Posted by Picksix

Good to see it in a format like this. Gives weight to the argument that we're not nearly as "loaded" with talent as people like to think.

I think a ranking like this does give a different perspective.

I think Ernie Sims is a little cheated on it.

I think it shows that Dallas has a good amount of top players at certain positions. They are probably as talented as anyone at the top end but the other thing to notice is that the back end is almost non-existant. The team basically relies solely on the guys in the first 10 spots.

[Beast_from_East]

Man, what a drop off after 13.


Also, putting Lee ahead of Romo makes this list hard to take seriously. We win maybe 3 games without Romo and yet we almost won the division title with Lee and his big toe standing on the sideline.

Not bagging on Lee, just saying.

[CowboysPhan]

Of course, it's hard to make a ranking of this nature work perfectly because of the different natures of the positions. For example, Dan Bailey is ranked number 20, but was darn near perfect at what he does this year. L.P. Ledoucier is ranked #30, yet he pretty much WAS perfect at what he does. So a couple of those guys, while they may be ranked low like that on the list of players, it doesn't mean they are bad at what they do at all. You simply can't rank a long-snapper above guys who contribute in larger roles.

[DFWJC]

Originally Posted by Hoofbite

I think a ranking like this does give a different perspective.

I think Ernie Sims is a little cheated on it.

I think it shows that Dallas has a good amount of top players at certain positions. They are probably as talented as anyone at the top end but the other thing to notice is that the back end is almost non-existant. The team basically relies solely on the guys in the first 10 spots.

I agree.

And that's why injuries cna be so crippling. You have to have good depth to overcome it.

[HoosierCowboy]

Three observations (both should be obvious):

1. we are not a talented team
2. injuries killed us last year
3. rankings like this are totally irrelevant (but kinda fun)

[DFWJC]

Originally Posted by HoosierCowboy

Three observations (both should be obvious):

1. we are not a talented team
2. injuries killed us last year
3. rankings like this are totally irrelevant (but kinda fun)

check (from top-to-bottom, anyway)
check (no doubt)
check

[Idgit]

I don't see anything particularly enlightening in ranking the players this way, but, yeah, I agree with the general consensus that our roster is top-heavy. That's been the case for 5 years, though. It's one of the reasons I am hopeful under Garrett because I do believe he's got a system in place where the scouts are finding him the talent he's looking for. It's just that we've had to replace our entire starting OL and three quarters of our starting secondary while trying to add and develop depth underneath it all. That's not been an easy task, and, while it's going on, our quality starters are getting older.

[Flinger]

... Garrett is the problem... really?

Let's see:

Get rid of Garrett, insert name of the next coach, continue with poor roster, get rid of "insert name of next coach", insert name of next coach, continue with poor roster...

Copy

Paste

History? See 1998 through 2013... hit enter

[Risen Star]

Originally Posted by Idgit

I don't see anything particularly enlightening in ranking the players this way, but, yeah, I agree with the general consensus that our roster is top-heavy. That's been the case for 5 years, though. It's one of the reasons I am hopeful under Garrett because I do believe he's got a system in place where the scouts are finding him the talent he's looking for. It's just that we've had to replace our entire starting OL and three quarters of our starting secondary while trying to add and develop depth underneath it all. That's not been an easy task, and, while it's going on, our quality starters are getting older.

It's pretty irrelevant what had to be replaced when evaluating the scouting job being done. Either the new players are quality or they're not.

What we've done at the OL since Garrett has been head coach has been awful. Tyron's the only one worth mentioning. We drafted poorly (Arkin, Nagy), whiffed in FA (Livings, Bernadeau) and are relying on a couple of ham and egg UDFAs to emerge as a starter (Costa, Kowalski).

A tip of the cap to the scouting and system in place that let them unearth Brandon Carr and Morris Claiborne. It's amazing what 50 million dollars and 1st and 2nd round picks can get you. What a bargain.

The bottom line is an honest evaluation of this team will tell you it's been mismanaged in every aspect of the organization and that certainly includes the scouting and player personnel. This is why you have such a top heavy roster. It's not because of what's been replaced but what we've replaced them with.

Now I've seen some improvement but it's still nowhere near where it needs to be. In fact, the 2012 draft class is almost certain to go down as worse than the 2011 class.

We've got to start hitting on more picks. Particularly mid to late rounders who give you that cap relief to be able to absorb some of these awful cap killing contracts the Jones twins can't stop signing.

Kyle Wilber? Matt Johnson? Danny Coale? James Hanna? Caleb McSurdy?

If you're honest, that's a very underwhelming group of mid to late round picks last year. You hope it starts to look better this year but do you have any faith in that?

I would looooove to believe our personnel department has turned around since Garrett's been the coach and we simply have to be patient as all these quality young players mature into their prime. I just don't see it.

[Risen Star]

Originally Posted by Flinger

... Garrett is the problem... really?

Let's see:

Get rid of Garrett, insert name of the next coach, continue with poor roster, get rid of "insert name of next coach", insert name of next coach, continue with poor roster...

Copy

Paste

History? See 1998 through 2013... hit enter

That's right.

Garrett will be the fall guy next January. Oh, how the masses will rejoice when he is canned and we can finally unleash all our scary talent with a head coach with some clue of what he's doing.

He either performs a magic trick this year or this is his fate.

[Seven]

Yet another list directly reflecting the coaching carousel, IMO.

Zero continuity on one side of the ball or the other, often.

I have always been one to subscribe that you draft talent and put them in a position to succeed with scheme/coaching to the strengths of the athlete's as a core. Insert pieces to compliment.

Dallas can't continue to roll with an idea, scrap it, keep the present talent and expect it all to fall into place with a new face every few years. Lag-time is killing them.

Our grand-poohbah of all that is the Dallas Cowboys keeps handing out fat contracts, hangs onto JAG's and then empties the punch bowl. We'll always have a bottom heavy list.


I wonder how bottom heavy this list would be IF we had a long-term plan?

This is a prime example of jerry and his "drive right over the water" comments. His flash in the pan approach isn't going to work. There's something wrong with that man.

[Idgit]

Originally Posted by Risen Star

It's pretty irrelevant what had to be replaced when evaluating the scouting job being done. Either the new players are quality or they're not.

What we've done at the OL since Garrett has been head coach has been awful. Tyron's the only one worth mentioning. We drafted poorly (Arkin, Nagy), whiffed in FA (Livings, Bernadeau) and are relying on a couple of ham and egg UDFAs to emerge as a starter (Costa, Kowalski).

A tip of the cap to the scouting and system in place that let them unearth Brandon Carr and Morris Claiborne. It's amazing what 50 million dollars and 1st and 2nd round picks can get you. What a bargain.

The bottom line is an honest evaluation of this team will tell you it's been mismanaged in every aspect of the organization and that certainly includes the scouting and player personnel. This is why you have such a top heavy roster. It's not because of what's been replaced but what we've replaced them with.

[View Full Quote]Now I've seen some improvement but it's still nowhere near where it needs to be. In fact, the 2012 draft class is almost certain to go down as worse than the 2011 class.

We've got to start hitting on more picks. Particularly mid to late rounders who give you that cap relief to be able to absorb some of these awful cap killing contracts the Jones twins can't stop signing.

Kyle Wilber? Matt Johnson? Danny Coale? James Hanna? Caleb McSurdy?

If you're honest, that's a very underwhelming group of mid to late round picks last year. You hope it starts to look better this year but do you have any faith in that?

I would looooove to believe our personnel department has turned around since Garrett's been the coach and we simply have to be patient as all these quality young players mature into their prime. I just don't see it.

We've been round and round on this, so let's not do it again. I think you're underrating the interior OL moves, and you know that. We didn't whiff on either OG, though neither are world-beaters. And your assessment of Costa isn't generous and doesn't match the team's assessment or what we've seen recently when he's gotten on the field. I agree, though, that if you're right about the veteran FA OGs, then of course those moves obviously don't count as meaningful upgrades. The secondary did badly need to be addressed, and you should give the team credit for doing that.

On the mid-round picks, we're back at the place where I point out that you have unrealistic expectations for mid-rounders. And that that's magnified when you're referencing mid round picks from last year, several of whom were hurt. When you look at recent acquisitions in context, we're doing a good job hitting on our high picks (Smith, Carter, Lee, Bryant, Murray) and a very good job finding college street free agents who can play. Our mid-round picks look pretty much like other team's mid-round picks, and last season's have a ton of injury question marks.

[perrykemp]

Originally Posted by Idgit

When you look at recent acquisitions in context, we're doing a good job hitting on our high picks (Smith, Carter, Lee, Bryant, Murray) a.

Idgit, I can't help but point out that a "glass half-full" view could be taken of those 5 players you highlighted as examples of how Dallas is "hitting" in the draft:

• Smith: Ranked in the bottom half of NFL left tackles in his 2nd season in the league. Yes he is young and yes it was his first year at LT, however, it's not like he has been a instant superstar or anything. He has been slightly above average in whole.
  
  
• Carter: Has started about 1/3 of games since drafted. Came out as a injured red flag player and ended the year on IR. Looks fantastic when on the field, however, he hasn't disproved the reason why he fell into the 2nd round -- injury concerns
  
  
• Lee: Ditto as Carter. 1st round talent that fell to the 2nd round due to injury red flag issues. Awesome when on the field, however, hasn't disproved the reason why he fell into the 2nd round -- injury concerns
  
  
• Bryant: Looks like he is becoming a superstar -- however, it was just 2 months ago it looked like the team was nearly ready to move on. He still is the only player I am aware of in the entire NFL who has a set of full time man-sitters to help him keep curfew, drive him to practice, and keep him out of trouble. A lot of the concerns that dropped Bryant to the bottom of the 1st round have come true.
  
  
• Murray: Again, a very talented guy who came out of college with some whispers about durability. To date, ended his rookie year on injured reserve and missed half of his 2nd year on IR.

Where I am going with this is so far none of these guys, other than Bryant, have become Pro-Bowl / All-Pro guys for various reasons ranging from mediocre performance to injuries.

While I agree with you things have gotten better compared to the past getting value from the top of the draft, I still don't think the Cowboys are doing well enough compared to other top teams in the NFL (obviously).