Does it concern anyone about our past whiffs at drafting a 4-3 defensive end? - Page 4 - Dallas Cowboys Forum

dfense · 02-04-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by Verdict

In light of our switch to a 4-3 defense do our past whiffs at drafting a 4-3 defensive end bother anyone other than me?

Greg Ellis?

the_h0wey · 02-04-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by Verdict

In light of our switch to a 4-3 defense do our past whiffs at drafting a 4-3 defensive end bother anyone other than me?

Are you telling me you weren't happy with the Kavika Pittman and Ebenezer Ekuban picks?

Ratmatt · 02-05-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by Verdict

In light of our switch to a 4-3 defense do our past whiffs at drafting a 4-3 defensive end bother anyone other than me?

Yeah it does.It was actually the first thing I thought about when I heard they were switching to the 4-3.

Verdict · 02-05-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelWinicki

Nor would I lose my sense of balance about drafting 4-3 DE's since the Cowboys have not attempted to draft any in close to a decade now.

And throwing up your hands and howling at the moon over what the Cowboys did prior to that seems very over the top.

Yes. That's true. But did our GM change when I wasn't looking? I like Jerry Jones, but we have tried to fit a square peg into a round hole a lot trying to reach for a DE just because we thought we "HAD" to have one.

I think Victor Butler sucks as a 3-4 OLB, and I thought he was way too slow to play the position at the time he was drafted. But I wonder if he will have any value as a rushing end in a 4-3? Then again, playing the run has never been his strength so I'm not sure how that is going to fit in there.

Verdict · 02-05-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_h0wey

Are you telling me you weren't happy with the Kavika Pittman and Ebenezer Ekuban picks?

An emphatic NO from me on that question. Were you?

theogt · 02-05-2013

There's really no rocket science to picking players in the draft. You get guys with measurables that look like they can play the game. Some pan out and some don't. By and large, it's luck. And if a GM has a string of good picks, it's more coincidence than anything.

xwalker · 02-06-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by Verdict

Yes. That's true. But did our GM change when I wasn't looking? I like Jerry Jones, but we have tried to fit a square peg into a round hole a lot trying to reach for a DE just because we thought we "HAD" to have one.

I think Victor Butler sucks as a 3-4 OLB, and I thought he was way too slow to play the position at the time he was drafted. But I wonder if he will have any value as a rushing end in a 4-3? Then again, playing the run has never been his strength so I'm not sure how that is going to fit in there.

He might have some value as a Nickel Pass-rusher. He wouldn't really have to play the run or play in coverage.

xwalker · 02-06-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_h0wey

Are you telling me you weren't happy with the Kavika Pittman and Ebenezer Ekuban picks?

Those guys looked good compared to Shante Carver.

Pittman was 2nd round pick.

AbeBeta · 02-06-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_h0wey

Are you telling me you weren't happy with the Kavika Pittman and Ebenezer Ekuban picks?

Ekuban was a solid player. He ended up having to play way too much on the strong side - he even complained about it. That was not a smart move on our part. We drafted a pass rusher and made him play the run side.

Ekuban stayed in the league for 5 years (missing one of those with injury) and averaged 6 sacks a season. That's not great but any guy who stays in the league for 10 years isn't crap.

Double Trouble · 02-06-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eskimo

I would argue that we have drafted better college DL than anywhere else in the past decade. We only had one minor whiff as Spears was a disappointment for a first rounder. Otherwise we have acquired:

Hits:
Ware (1st round)
Spencer (1st round)
Bowen (UDFA)
Canty (4th round)
Ratliff (7th round)
Lissemore (7th round)
Brent (7th round, supplemental)
Butler (4th round)
Crawford (3rd round)

Misses:
Spears (1st round)
Brandon Williams (4th round)

That looks like a pretty good record of finding talent to me. You could argue Ware and Spencer were drafted to be OLBs but they were essentially DLs in college and function as DEs in a 4-man line for more than half of their snaps.

[View Full Quote]

Crawford is a "hit"? He's barely seen the field.

Most of those guys were acquired when Parcells was here or are unproven. Regardless, you'd think the team that you deem "best" in drafting DL would therefore have a great DL. Do we?

Pretty obvious, isn't it?

Double Trouble · 02-06-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by theogt

There's really no rocket science to picking players in the draft. You get guys with measurables that look like they can play the game. Some pan out and some don't. By and large, it's luck. And if a GM has a string of good picks, it's more coincidence than anything.

It's just blind luck the Ravens/Steelers/etc have been so good the last decade? Just blind luck that Parcells took over the Jets/Pats/Cowboys and dramatically improved their rosters in each case?

It may not be a science, but it's an art at which some people have proven to be far better than others.

**MichaelWinicki** · 02-06-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by Verdict

Yes. That's true. But did our GM change when I wasn't looking? I like Jerry Jones, but we have tried to fit a square peg into a round hole a lot trying to reach for a DE just because we thought we "HAD" to have one.

The Cowboys have experienced a big changed in the way they draft (now) as opposed to what they did in the mid/late 90's. There been numerous discussions on the board about that.

theogt · 02-06-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double Trouble

It's just blind luck the Ravens/Steelers/etc have been so good the last decade? Just blind luck that Parcells took over the Jets/Pats/Cowboys and dramatically improved their rosters in each case?

It may not be a science, but it's an art at which some people have proven to be far better than others.

The Ravens and Steelers have had very little turnover in their defensive personnel for the past decade. It's nice when you get a very good core group (including a sprinkling of HOFers) and can stick with them for a decade.

I'm not saying there aren't people in the business that don't know what they're doing. I'm just saying it's a pretty low threshold.

AsthmaField · 02-06-2013

I'm not concerned, no. The team has completely changed how it approaches the draft now. I like the job they're doing with the draft these days, and if you look back to the late 90's and early 00's, it wasn't just DE's that they were having trouble finding. They couldn't draft football players very well.

They now seem to be drafting pretty well overall and IMO it doesn't matter what defensive scheme we're running in regards to the draft.

As a matter of fact, if Spencer does leave I like the idea of finding a strongside DE better than I like them trying to find a strongside OLB. I think it will be an easier hole to fill because you don't have to worry about how the player is in pass coverage. With a DE you just look at stopping the run and rushing the QB. At OLB you have to have those two things, but you also have to ask if the guy can play in coverage.

Either way, the team is looking for a strongside edge rusher.

Add in the fact that we have Kiffin and Marinelli helping us pick the players that we will draft for this defense, and I don't have any concerns at all. Both of those guys know what kind of player fits their defense and you can bet they'll be in Garrett's and Jones' ear about who to draft.

So, with the team drafting much better than it did in that bad DE run, with fewer teams now running the 43 and with coaches that know what kind of talent fits the scheme, it doesn't concern me one bit. As a matter of fact, with Marinelli and Kiffin helping to draft guys for this defense, I might feel better about it than I did with Ryan helping in the War room with his 34 scheme.