Chat: George: Cowboys scouting department more on ‘same page’ in draft room

[burmafrd]

Originally Posted by WoodysGirl

Terrell Suggs had one injury. Ware had three and all of which were pretty major. So it's not an excuse if the injury was truly a factor in his performance.

Jon Machota ‏@jonmachota
DeMarcus Ware suffered a fractured wrist, hyperextended elbow and a torn labrum this season. "I was playing about six games with one arm."

I guess some here think that one armed with a bad shoulder and neck stingers and so on should be able to make the same plays as when 100%. Which is moronic.

[Alexander]

Originally Posted by BHendri5

Why do they blame Garrett and Jerry for the bad drafts by Wade and Parcells?
Garrett is cleaning up the mess that those two left.

Jason Garrett's hands are likely not clean in all of this either.

We already are fully aware that his input was very integral in the decision to take Felix Jones over Mendenhall.

I have no question in my mind that with his "scouting background" and Jones' level of respect for Garrett that his opinion on players like Martellus Bennett, Tyron Smith and Dez Bryant factored heavily into our decision to draft them as well.

He almost has the same level of accountability as Phillips has absorbed for the decision to draft Jason Williams, for example.

[Oh_Canada]

Originally Posted by WoodysGirl

Terrell Suggs had one injury. Ware had three and all of which were pretty major. So it's not an excuse if the injury was truly a factor in his performance.

Jon Machota ‏@jonmachota
DeMarcus Ware suffered a fractured wrist, hyperextended elbow and a torn labrum this season. "I was playing about six games with one arm."

If you can't play, than don't.

Ware was a ghost that final game. No point in being out there. Anyone thinks who thinks otherwise is just mornic.

[Alexander]

Originally Posted by Hoofbite

I think the reasons why Jerry gets blamed are obvious.

But the underlying completely misunderstood. It is too easy to blame Jerry Jones for making a bad choice. But he hardly is making the decisions based on his own personal opinion.

Jerry Jones is not a talent evaluator and never has been. That is the real problem.

He is not a true GM who hits the road during the months of Feb.-April.

He is not attending most Pro Days, individual workouts and the like.

He sits in the stands in Indianapolis and shows his face in Mobile, but he is not intensely studying the draft classes as much as he is at the mercy of what he is being fed.

He may be the "tie breaker" and make the final call, but his lack of involvement in the overall process like most general managers is the bigger issue in the equation.

[WoodysGirl]

Originally Posted by Oh_Canada

If you can't play, than don't.

Ware was a ghost that final game. No point in being out there. Anyone thinks who thinks otherwise is just mornic.

I think it says alot about the depth behind Ware. They'd rather have a one-armed Ware out there than a "healthy" one in Butler.

[ufcrules1]

Originally Posted by Oh_Canada

They crumbled when the game REALLY mattered.

Look at the supposed "leaders" of this team in the final game:

Romo-three picks.

Ware whiffing on plays like he was Mark Reynolds.

Austin jogging into the locker room, than jogging back only to tell his coach he couldn't go. Miraculously coming back in when Bryant couldn't move anymore without the help of a wheelchair.

Sensy missing tackles in the secondary.

Ratliff not showing up on the sidelines for the biggest game of the season.

On and on and on.

They did make progress from the mental aspect of the game I agree...but overall they are still as soft as a fire roasted marshmellow on a hot summer day.

Excellent post. We certainly don't lack the talent but we do lack the mental toughness, leadership on the offense & defense, etc. That comes from a culture that Jerry has created. He doesn't let his coaches control their teams, he meddles too much, etc. Also, I feel some of our veterans don't know how to lead out there.

[Risen Star]

Originally Posted by ufcrules1

Excellent post. We certainly don't lack the talent

I strongly disagree. We lack talent. At the most critical areas on the field.

[MonsterD]

Originally Posted by Bowdown27

Parcells did not draft THAT well here. He wanted spears over ware and Jerry had to choose ware At 11. Drafts under wade were decent but everyone thought we were so close we didn't pay attention to detail. We need a great draft this year.

You forgot to mention Carpenter, and well that entire draft I think except Hatcher was awful.

[DBOY3141]

Originally Posted by Alexander

But the underlying completely misunderstood. It is too easy to blame Jerry Jones for making a bad choice. But he hardly is making the decisions based on his own personal opinion.

Jerry Jones is not a talent evaluator and never has been. That is the real problem.

He is not a true GM who hits the road during the months of Feb.-April.

He is not attending most Pro Days, individual workouts and the like.

He sits in the stands in Indianapolis and shows his face in Mobile, but he is not intensely studying the draft classes as much as he is at the mercy of what he is being fed.

He may be the "tie breaker" and make the final call, but his lack of involvement in the overall process like most general managers is the bigger issue in the equation.

He is the one that hires the scouts and the folks that do all the assessing of draft picks.

Jerry allows some decisions to be made by coaches, but overall he is in charge and for the last 17 years, he has stunk. Period. You remove him from being the GM and hire a real GM and you will see a difference.

[Coy]

Originally Posted by WoodysGirl

I think it says alot about the depth behind Ware. They'd rather have a one-armed Ware out there than a "healthy" one in Butler.

Watching Ware in that game was painful, doubt Butler would´ve played worse, IMO he shouldn´t have been in there.

[DFWJC]

Originally Posted by Alexander

Jason Garrett's hands are likely not clean in all of this either.

We already are fully aware that his input was very integral in the decision to take Felix Jones over Mendenhall.

I have no question in my mind that with his "scouting background" and Jones' level of respect for Garrett that his opinion on players like Martellus Bennett, Tyron Smith and Dez Bryant factored heavily into our decision to draft them as well.

He almost has the same level of accountability as Phillips has absorbed for the decision to draft Jason Williams, for example.

Passing on Mendy was no big deal. The problem with taking Felix is that we could have taken a player at another position that year because it was amazingly deep at RB. We could have had Ray Rice or Jamaal Charles or Forte outside of Round 1. Anyway, I thought Jerry was the one who had the real love for Felix.

Tyron Smith and Dez Bryant may turn out to be great picks in the long term.

I doubt very seriously Garrett pushed hard for Marty B. He was not HC and Marty is a bit nuts, so I can't see JG influencing that one.

[ufcrules1]

Originally Posted by Risen Star

I strongly disagree. We lack talent. At the most critical areas on the field.

I actually agree with you on this. I misspoke in my other post. There were times we didn't lack the talent but now we do lack some talent on the oline, dline, and at safety.

But going back to my other post. Even if we beefed up our lines with more talented players, we still have a poor culture here of weak minded players, weak coaching, and a bad owner who meddles too much in the draft and the day to day decisions of the coaching. He also refuses to let players go when they are no longer useful/worth what we are paying them. He is too emotionally invested.

We also have veteran talent who don't know how to lead. I'm hoping players like Lee, Carter, Carr, etc can be the vocal leaders this team needs and can motivate the future rookies that come in here to get fired up and play with pride out there.

We desperately need team unity and swagger. Ravens had it, 49'ers had it, Atlanta had it, and so on.

[Hoofbite]

Originally Posted by Alexander

But the underlying completely misunderstood. It is too easy to blame Jerry Jones for making a bad choice. But he hardly is making the decisions based on his own personal opinion.

Jerry Jones is not a talent evaluator and never has been. That is the real problem.

He is not a true GM who hits the road during the months of Feb.-April.

He is not attending most Pro Days, individual workouts and the like.

He sits in the stands in Indianapolis and shows his face in Mobile, but he is not intensely studying the draft classes as much as he is at the mercy of what he is being fed.

He may be the "tie breaker" and make the final call, but his lack of involvement in the overall process like most general managers is the bigger issue in the equation.

He has in the past and to be honest that's not even necessary.

You have a room full of scouts and the vast majority thinks a guy sucks while only a couple disagree and think he's a good player. Jerry (or whoever has final say) likes the kid and picks him. He hasn't done any scouting at all, has listened to the scouts and picked a player based on their input. Sounds great, right?

Yeah, until you find out that for whatever reason the guy took the vast majority of opinion and completely disregarded it.

This not even considering the angle that pertains to who hires the scouts in the first place so any fault that repeated falls to the scouts doesn't exactly make a shining statement for the HR department who put them there.

[ufcrules1]

Originally Posted by Coy

Watching Ware in that game was painful, doubt Butler would´ve played worse, IMO he shouldn´t have been in there.

I completely agree but Ware has a better name than Butler. That is how it works here right now. Ware knowing he was hurt bad should have stepped up and said "Hey, put Butler in, I'm in too much pain and can't produce like I need to". That would be doing the right thing for the team.

[Coy]

Originally Posted by ufcrules1

I completely agree but Ware has a better name than Butler. That is how it works here right now. Ware knowing he was hurt bad should have stepped up and said "Hey, put Butler in, I'm in too much pain and can't produce like I need to". That would be doing the right thing for the team.

I agree, but that´s the competitive nature in pro bowl players, the "they´ll have to drag me out of this field" kind of statements, that´s where Garrett or Ryan come in, they should have pulled him after seeing he wasn´t good enough to play that day.