McShay/Kiper 1st round mocks V.2 2/7/13....

[jterrell]

Originally Posted by ABQCOWBOY

Fair enough. My issue is that the 33 year old version of Allen, IMO, is not worth a 1st round pick. Good player but I see that player at RG.

Yea, I think he is a 25-35 guy.

I'd be fine with him after a trade down but would question him heavily at 18.

For value I have selected him in mocks at 47 but new info moved him up past that point

In the thread about him where xwalker linked us the LSU game you can see why he is steadily moving up. He handled speed rushers quite well and found ways to get involved in plays even away from him.

There was never any push in his area and in short yardage he flat moved guys.

My main concern would be keeping him from getting any bigger and really working on his agility and conditioning. But much easier to do that than to add 200 pounds of leg strength to David Arkin.

[jnday]

Originally Posted by jterrell

Fan sentiment is meaningless.
We all loved the Tyron Smith pick but by and large hated Bruce Carter, DeMarco Murray and others.

Dallas has to trust the board. Add talent and then fans will care less about who they use to love in the off-season.

I personally hated the Bruce Carter pick but I'd be perfectly happy wearing a Carter jersey now. He can flat play.

I liked the Carter pick more than the Tyron pick. For the last half of his rookie season, Tyron was proving me wrong. This year the same faults came up with Tyron that made me not want to draft him with the 9th pick.

[StanleySpadowski]

Originally Posted by jterrell

Fan sentiment is meaningless.
We all loved the Tyron Smith pick but by and large hated Bruce Carter, DeMarco Murray and others.

Dallas has to trust the board. Add talent and then fans will care less about who they use to love in the off-season.

I personally hated the Bruce Carter pick but I'd be perfectly happy wearing a Carter jersey now. He can flat play.

Don't say "we". I hated the Smith pick, liked the Carter one and was so-so on Murray due to durability issues but thought he had value at that spot.

[big dog cowboy]

Originally Posted by NeonDeion21

I wonder how tempted Jerry and Jason would be if Geno fell to #18.

Luckily we won't have to worry about that.

[TheKey]

Originally Posted by big dog cowboy

Luckily we won't have to worry about that.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. If he is there, I hope we take him.

[Rack Bauer]

Originally Posted by TheKey

I wouldn't be so sure about that. If he is there, I hope we take him.

I don't know why anyone would hope for such a thing.


I hope he isn't there, that way it gives the possibility of pushing another good player to 18.

[dfense]

Originally Posted by Risen Star

Click the links for full commentary.

-

McShay

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft...nate-top-board

1.. Kansas City - Star Lotulelei DT Utah
2.. Jacksonville - Bjoern Werner* DE Florida St.
3.. Oakland - Dee Milliner* CB Alabama
4.. Philadelphia - Luke Joeckel* T Texas A&M
5.. Detroit - Dion Jordan DE Oregon
6.. Cleveland - Barkevious Mingo* DE LSU
7.. Arizona - Eric Fisher T Central Michigan
8.. Buffalo - Geno Smith QB West Virginia
9.. N.Y. Jets - Jarvis Jones* OLB Georgia
10. Tennessee - Chance Warmack G Alabama
11. San Diego - Lane Johnson T Oklahoma
12. Miami - Kenny Vaccaro S Texas
13. Tampa Bay - Damontre Moore* DE Texas A&M
14. Carolina - Sharrif Floyd* DT Florida
[View Full Quote]15. New Orleans - Ezekiel Ansah DE BYU
16. St. Louis - Cordarelle Patterson* WR Tennessee
17. Pittsburgh - Johnathan Hankins DT Ohio St.

18. Dallas - Sheldon Richardson* DT Missouri
Richardson fills a top need and is a perfect fit as 3-technique in the 4-3 scheme of new defensive coordinator Monte Kiffin. He lacks ideal size and strength, but Richardson has elite first-step quickness, change-of-direction skills and range to penetrate and disrupt plays.

19. N.Y. Giants - Alec Ogletree* ILB Georgia
20. Chicago - Manti Te'o ILB Notre Dame
21. Cincinnati - Eddie Lacy* RB Alabama
22. St. Louis (Wash) - Sylvester Williams DT North Carolina
23. Minnesota - Blidi Wreh-Wilson CB Connecticut
24. Indianapolis - Johnthan Banks CB Mississippi St.
25. Seattle - Sam Montgomery* DE LSU
26. Green Bay - Johnathan Jenkins DT Georgia
27. Houston - Keenan Allen* WR California
28. Denver - Kawann Short DT Purdue
29. New England - Jonathan Cooper G North Carolina
30. Atlanta - Zach Ertz* TE Stanford
31. San Francisco - Justin Hunter* WR Tennessee
32. Baltimore - Jesse Williams DT Alabama

-

Kiper

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft...ond-mock-draft

1.. Kansas City - Luke Joeckel* T Texas A&M
2.. Jacksonville - Damontre Moore* DE Texas A&M
3.. Oakland - Star Lotulelei DT Utah
4.. Philadelphia - Dee Milliner* CB Alabama
5.. Detroit - Jarvis Jones* OLB Georgia
6.. Cleveland - Bjoern Werner* DE Florida St.
7.. Arizona - Eric Fisher T Central Michigan
8.. Buffalo - Alec Ogletree* ILB Georgia
9.. N.Y. Jets - Dion Jordan DE Oregon
10. Tennessee - Barkevious Mingo* DE LSU
11. San Diego - Jonathan Cooper G North Carolina
12. Miami - Cordarelle Patterson* WR Tennessee
13. Tampa Bay - Manti Te'o ILB Notre Dame
14. Carolina - Sheldon Richardson* DT Missouri
15. New Orleans - Sharrif Floyd* DT Florida
16. St. Louis - Lane Johnson T Oklahoma
17. Pittsburgh - Ezekiel Ansah DE BYU

18. Dallas - Chance Warmack G Alabama
Follow my Big Board week to week and you're probably surprised I could fathom a situation where Warmack is still around at No. 18. But remember, the mock also takes into account where I hear teams are valuing guys, and in the case of a player like Warmack, the positional value aspect hurts him as a guard. Make no mistake, he's a stud, a dominant guard who makes your offensive line better the second he signs his contract. But he's staying inside, period, limiting his shot at the top 10. Dallas could certainly use an upgrade at guard, and I don't think the Cowboys can pass up Warmack at this spot on the board if he's available.

19. N.Y. Giants - Zach Ertz* TE Stanford
20. Chicago - D.J. Fluker* T Alabama
21. Cincinnati - Kenny Vaccaro S Texas
22. St. Louis (Wash) - Keenan Allen* WR California
23. Minnesota - Sylvester Williams DT North Carolina
24. Indianapolis - Johnthan Banks CB Mississippi St.
25. Seattle - Johnathan Hankins* DT Ohio St.
26. Green Bay - Eddie Lacy* RB Alabama
27. Houston - Quinton Patton WR Louisiana Tech
28. Denver - Kawann Short DT Purdue
29. New England - Matt Elam* S Florida
30. Atlanta - Tyler Eifert* TE Notre Dame
31. San Francisco - Johnathan Jenkins DT Georgia
32. Baltimore - Kevin Minter* ILB LSU

I still remember a couple years ago Kyper got every single first round pick wrong. All 32 teams. 100% inaccuracy takes talent.

[DFWJC]

Originally Posted by StanleySpadowski

It's not really stunning if you pay attention. Look at the last 10 Super Bowl winners. It would be hard to argue that there's a great OL in the bunch. Heck, the Ravens shuffled their OL for the playoffs because they were performing so badly. .

In these playoffs, you could argue the Olines that played the best were in the Super Bowl game.
The Ravens made that adjustment and then it all came together--almost everyone is marveling at how well that Oline played. And we all already know how good SF's oline was.

[Risen Star]

Originally Posted by dfense

I still remember a couple years ago Kyper got every single first round pick wrong. All 32 teams. 100% inaccuracy takes talent.

That's news to me.

Did you dream it?

[newlander]

Originally Posted by xwalker

The highest rated OG in 10+ years or a Safety that is not the consensus best player at his position in this draft.

...we are NOT taking a safety at 18 nor should we. My top 3 for need and want at 18 are:

1) Richardson: no brainer
2) Warmack: awesome if he's there
3)FLuker: move him to guard and he should be a younger version of Leonard Davis IMO and crush people (but in a crunch he could also be your swing Right Tackle

[jterrell]

Originally Posted by DFWJC

In these playoffs, you could argue the Olines that played the best were in the Super Bowl game.
The Ravens made that adjustment and then it all came together--almost everyone is marveling at how well that Oline played. And we all already know how good SF's oline was.

You "could" make that argument but it would be complete drivel.

Flacco and CK played tremendous to get to the SB. The Ravens and 49ers gave up high sack totals and high QB hit totals.

The Ravens were 10th out of 12 teams in rushing yards per attempt in the post-season. SF did finish 1st but would have been middle of the pack minus CK's scrambles.

Minny, SEA, ATL can all claim to have better OLs than BMore especially.

[KB1122]

If Smith is rated highly enough to go #8, then he will probably go #1.

[LatinMind]

Originally Posted by ABQCOWBOY

I agree but not because it's Vaccaro, per say. I think he would be a serious consideration here but the reason I think they would not take Warmack is because he projects to RG IMO. Also, he is a Guard. When's the last time Dallas took a Guard in the 1st round?

It's only happened twice. Once in 1966 with John Niland (1st Rd, 5th pick overall, Iowa) and once in 1981 with Howard Richardson (1st Rd, 26th pick overall, Missouri).

Now, Niland I'd have to say was a good pick, even if it was the 5th overall pick. Richardson, not so much. He started 18 games over 7 seasons.

Can it happen? Yeah, it could, it's happened before but it's never happened while Jerry was here and I just don't see it happening now.

I dont see how you see him being a RG.

[xwalker]

Originally Posted by LatinMind

I dont see how you see him being a RG.

I don't get that either. He is an LG in college...

Larry Allen spent most of his time at LG.

If Parnell is the RT, they're not going to want to put a rookie next to him.

[burmafrd]

Originally Posted by jterrell

You "could" make that argument but it would be complete drivel.

Flacco and CK played tremendous to get to the SB. The Ravens and 49ers gave up high sack totals and high QB hit totals.

The Ravens were 10th out of 12 teams in rushing yards per attempt in the post-season. SF did finish 1st but would have been middle of the pack minus CK's scrambles.

Minny, SEA, ATL can all claim to have better OLs than BMore especially.

love all the excuses to ignore the O line