Moneyball

[BrAinPaiNt]

Originally Posted by muck4doo

Take your mind off the point of the movie and look at the acting job they all did. They were wonderful.

I was not terrible acting job...however in no way did any of them wow me.

Never once while watching that movie did one of them stand out to me as an actor or a character that made me say WOW I am captivated with this character or actor.

For example.

I am a Tarantino fan. When I watched inglorious Basterds I thought it was a good movie and enjoyed it. However Brad Pitts accent in that movie annoyed me after hearing a minute of it. There was good dialogue in the movie, good actions scenes and so on but the minutes the movie started and Christoph Waltz was playing the Col aka Jew Hunter...I was captivated. Every scene he was in had me mesmerized and I thought to my self...I don't know who this guy is but he is simply amazing.

I did not get that feeling what any character in Moneyball. Nor did I like it for an action or comedy movie. It was just an OK drama to me and nothing more.

Now to be fair...It was sooooo hyped up as a great movie and people pimped out Pitt and Jonah as doing a great job in it that I expected a whole lot more and that could have shaped how I felt about it. Rarely does a hyped up movie, live up to the hype.

But still...good, far from great.

[muck4doo]

Originally Posted by BrAinPaiNt

I was not terrible acting job...however in no way did any of them wow me.

Never once while watching that movie did one of them stand out to me as an actor or a character that made me say WOW I am captivated with this character or actor.

For example.

I am a Tarantino fan. When I watched inglorious Basterds I thought it was a good movie and enjoyed it. However Brad Pitts accent in that movie annoyed me after hearing a minute of it. There was good dialogue in the movie, good actions scenes and so on but the minutes the movie started and Christoph Waltz was playing the Col aka Jew Hunter...I was captivated. Every scene he was in had me mesmerized and I thought to my self...I don't know who this guy is but he is simply amazing.

I did not get that feeling what any character in Moneyball. Nor did I like it for an action or comedy movie. It was just an OK drama to me and nothing more.

[View Full Quote]Now to be fair...It was sooooo hyped up as a great movie and people pimped out Pitt and Jonah as doing a great job in it that I expected a whole lot more and that could have shaped how I felt about it. Rarely does a hyped up movie, live up to the hype.

But still...good, far from great.

Fair enough. I loved it, but also realize not everyone will feel the same way.

[Diogenes]

Good, not great. 6/10

I watched The Fighter the next night and thought it was much better. 8/10

[dexternjack]

Moneyball was a good movie. If you love baseball, it ranks up there but I can see it's other side as well if ya don't like/understand the game.

Baseball is my favorite sport(Mets fan) and I loved it. Dallas Cowboy football is my passion though.

[CashMan]

Originally Posted by Reality

You can make the argument that every high payroll team uses Moneyball. As I said, the term "moneyball" was coined to get big payroll return out of low payroll teams. The Red Sox do not qualify for that and neither do the Yankees or Dodgers. There are small market teams like the Marlins, Pirates, etc. that could benefit from the moneyball philosophy.

Spending $150+ million in salary is not moneyball .. it's simply buying the best. The Red Sox won the World Series because they opened their wallet and paid for it. Maybe they signed only high stat players, but they still paid for players that small market teams like the Pirates could never afford.

/reality

I think you are right to a degree. Big money teams want the HR's because that sells tickets, so they pass of the guys who don't hit them. But, that doesn't mean those players are bad. Moneyball looks at OBP, and determines if that player is valuable. I believe Moneyball doesn't like steals either. I think Theo did a good job of implementing it with money, and is trying to do the same with the Cubs. I think Theo implements it as well as Beane, just has some wiggle room to take chances with the money.

[speedkilz88]

If they wrote a book about the Dodgers it would have to be called Moneywaste.

[Yakuza Rich]

Originally Posted by Reality

The concept of "moneyball" would be more compelling if it actually produced real tangible results such as World Series wins. It seems like every year a small market teams does well most of the season only to fade when it matters. I guess if you're a small market team and looking for a way to at least keep fans coming to the games, moneyball is a good system to follow.

/reality

It did produce tangible results and did win a World Series with the Red Sox who used SABERmetrics and even hired Bill James to work as a consultant for the team.

And it produced tangible results for the A's as if you look at the typical records for such low payroll teams in baseball...it ain't pretty. And it's revolutionized how teams look at players in MLB.

Why?

Because the players the A's valued they avoid now because the rest of the league no longer undervalues these players.

The problem with 'Moneyball' is outside of Billy Beane it seems like so few understand the true principles.

Moneyball comes from something called 'SABERmetrics.' But, there's a difference between Moneyball and SABERmetrics. Moneyball is about finding undervalued players so a smaller payroll team can sign them and make a playoff contender out of them.

It's not completely about OPS, OBP, WHIP, etc. It's about finding undervalued players.

What so much of baseball didn't/doesn't understand is that most great players in baseball have the same metrics that Moneyball favors. Look at somebody like Ted Williams or Willie Myas and their metrics would rank as a HoF'er every time.

The bigger market teams don't have to worry about finding undervalued players because they can afford good, but overvalued players anyway.

Now the A's go after Cuban players and players out of high school, something they used to avoid.

Why?

Because those players are now undervalued by teams.

That's what it's really about.







YR

[Yakuza Rich]

Originally Posted by Reality

You can make the argument that every high payroll team uses Moneyball. As I said, the term "moneyball" was coined to get big payroll return out of low payroll teams. The Red Sox do not qualify for that and neither do the Yankees or Dodgers. There are small market teams like the Marlins, Pirates, etc. that could benefit from the moneyball philosophy.

Spending $150+ million in salary is not moneyball .. it's simply buying the best. The Red Sox won the World Series because they opened their wallet and paid for it. Maybe they signed only high stat players, but they still paid for players that small market teams like the Pirates could never afford.

/reality

The Red Sox used Moneyball religiously. They signed guys like Bill Mueller, Mark Bellhorn, and Mike Lowell because they were high OBP type of players. They initially tried to not spend money on a closer and instead rotate relief pitchers as closers...straight out of the Bill James handbook.

Their spending was often done to keep key players like Ortiz, Martinez, Garciaparra, Ramirez, Varitek, Schilling, etc...because they all fit into Moneyball favored metrics. Even Johnny Damon wasn't bad metrics wise and they could afford to overpay him.





YR

[kmp77]

Originally Posted by Reality

The concept of "moneyball" would be more compelling if it actually produced real tangible results such as World Series wins. It seems like every year a small market teams does well most of the season only to fade when it matters. I guess if you're a small market team and looking for a way to at least keep fans coming to the games, moneyball is a good system to follow.

/reality

I thought the movie was WAYYYYYY overrated. The "system" didn't have any lasting effects. And the happy ending was the Red Sox winning the world series...wth. Also thought Johah Hill was kinda bad trying to play a serious roll. He's only good in his loud goofy rolls. After it I was just bleh.

[muck4doo]

Originally Posted by Yakuza Rich

Now the A's go after Cuban players and players out of high school, something they used to avoid.



YR

Jose Canseco is rolling over in his grave, if he could afford a grave, if he were dead.

[FiveRings]

After seeing Moneyball a second time, I realized the A's model wasn't as radical as it seemed. Basically they just went after guys that were walk machines with high OBPs. That's a pretty common practice in the MLB these days. Plus it goes along with the old baseball saying a walk is as good as a hit. Still a movie I enjoyed very much, I loved their differing presentations of the games, sometimes they'd show it on radio, then on TV, then live, etc.

[Cowboy Junkie]

I didnt care for the movie. I thought it made it look like the A's pieced things together in a genius like way and the truth is it was all about scouting their farm system was very deep. even after losing the players they lost they still had one of the best pitching staffs in baseball.

still had a very good starting 9.

on top of this, steriods was rampat in that club house

[Questfor6]

Originally Posted by muck4doo

They're not a low payroll team, but they did use the same ideas that season they won it all. The Pats also seem to operate the same way. Other than Brady and Welker(he's not even that high), who else makes a ton of money on that team?

Wilfork, Gronkowski, Hernandez, Mankins, Mayo and soon to be Talib.

[ChldsPlay]

Originally Posted by kmp77

I thought the movie was WAYYYYYY overrated. The "system" didn't have any lasting effects. And the happy ending was the Red Sox winning the world series...wth. Also thought Johah Hill was kinda bad trying to play a serious roll. He's only good in his loud goofy rolls. After it I was just bleh.

Uh..no. Moneyball is about the only thing he is tolerable in.

[Yeagermeister]

Originally Posted by ChldsPlay

Uh..no. Moneyball is about the only thing he is tolerable in.

I agree. Moneyball was the one movie I actually liked him in.