Mayock Pre-combine position rankings for 2013 NFL Draft

[BAT]

Originally Posted by MonsterD

100% agree he might be a 2nd rounder although I think he still could be a 3rd.

Problem is all the teams will want to get a developmental LT and he is one that is perfect.

Another guy that will go later and is at least as athletic as him is Terron Armstead from a tiny school Arkasas-Pine Bluff I see him as a possible G but I think he would be a great RT.

I like Armstead too. Especially before the SR Bowl when I thought he could be a late day steal. He would be ideal as the blocking TE as he gains more experience and strength in the pros. He reminds me a bit of Brian Waters.

[jterrell]

nothing too shocking. everyone has some preferences.

the qb class is absolutely horrid imho.
dont have any issues with the rest of the offense. not a stellar offensive class but after qb the positions are about average.

i also believe barrett jones is a 3rd round type guy. issue with him is will he get any better? he rather is what he is. a smallish, not so powerful technician. wish i had senior bowl tape of him. right now i believe we have barrett jones and his name is david arkin.

i think richardson is every bit as good as fletcher cox last year. so he is prolly gone by 18 but that's my early target.
if not him then possibly an RT/RG.

i dont love any of these safeties enough to draft them at 18.
but i do want to come out of this draft with one. we need some depth at the position.

i like the wr and rb classes. maybe r5/r6 positions. depth guys who can be given roles day 1.

[tm1119]

Originally Posted by marchetta

We've got one of those already... Costa.

Costa and Barrett Jones arent even comparable though. Phil Costa was a lightly recruited 2 star prospect who started 2 years for a poor Maryland team and then went undrafted. Barrett Jones is the polar opposite. Highly recruited high school stud who won awards playing on the best team and o-line in all of college football.

Not saying Jones doesn't have his flaws, but Costa isn't even in the same world as Jones. Jones would be immediately better than Costa from day 1.


WOW. Now people are going to compare David "Bleeping" Arkin to Barrett Jones??? Really!? What the hell is going on here. Arkin clearly doesn't even belong in the NFL. Are we going to act like Barrett Jones didn't dominate the SEC? Im not even really a big Barrett Jones fan, but this is ridiculous.

[jterrell]

Originally Posted by tm1119

Costa and Barrett Jones arent even comparable though. Phil Costa was a lightly recruited 2 star prospect who started 2 years for a poor Maryland team and then went undrafted. Barrett Jones is the polar opposite. Highly recruited high school stud who won awards playing on the best team and o-line in all of college football.

Not saying Jones doesn't have his flaws, but Costa isn't even in the same world as Jones. Jones would be immediately better than Costa from day 1.


WOW. Now people are going to compare David "Bleeping" Arkin to Barrett Jones??? Really!? What the hell is going on here. Arkin clearly doesn't even belong in the NFL. Are we going to act like Barrett Jones didn't dominate the SEC? Im not even really a big Barrett Jones fan, but this is ridiculous.

What's ridiculous is the constant overrating of draft prospects.

Barrett Jones was undoubtedly a better college player than either Costa or Arkin. They haven't been in college for quite a while. They have been working year round with NFL personnel.

Barrett Jones didn't dominate the SEC. He played well but wasn't anywhere near his team's most dominant player. He was a tactical guy who got the job done but he wasn't moving folks the way Chance and Fluker did.

Barrett may well be maxed out which would suggest he has upside limit around where Costa and Arkin are now. Marginally strong enough to play in the NFL and have to rely on nastiness and technique.

Bama didn't even have Barrett single block studs inside. He had helped or simply walled guys.

This is why the fan base is crying in their beers every year.
They believe mid round picks are day 1 pro bowlers or some nonsense after the draft hype. It just doesn't work that way very often at all.

[tm1119]

Originally Posted by jterrell

What's ridiculous is the constant overrating of draft prospects.

Barrett Jones was undoubtedly a better college player than either Costa or Arkin. They haven't been in college for quite a while. They have been working year round with NFL personnel.

Barrett Jones didn't dominate the SEC. He played well but wasn't anywhere near his team's most dominant player. He was a tactical guy who got the job done but he wasn't moving folks the way Chance and Fluker did.

Barrett may well be maxed out which would suggest he has upside limit around where Costa and Arkin are now. Marginally strong enough to play in the NFL and have to rely on nastiness and technique.

Bama didn't even have Barrett single block studs inside. He had helped or simply walled guys.

This is why the fan base is crying in their beers every year.
[View Full Quote]They believe mid round picks are day 1 pro bowlers or some nonsense after the draft hype. It just doesn't work that way very often at all.

You're forgetting the fact that he was arguably the best LT in all of college football his junior year. No, he's not a huge mauler like Fluker or Warmack but his strength is adequate. If it wasn't it would have been exposed in the SEC (AKA the minor leagues of the NFL). Not saying Jones is going to be a pro bowler or anything, but comparing him to Arkin or Costa is flat out dumb.

[Macnalty]

Originally Posted by jterrell

What's ridiculous is the constant overrating of draft prospects.

Barrett Jones was undoubtedly a better college player than either Costa or Arkin. They haven't been in college for quite a while. They have been working year round with NFL personnel.

Barrett Jones didn't dominate the SEC. He played well but wasn't anywhere near his team's most dominant player. He was a tactical guy who got the job done but he wasn't moving folks the way Chance and Fluker did.

Barrett may well be maxed out which would suggest he has upside limit around where Costa and Arkin are now. Marginally strong enough to play in the NFL and have to rely on nastiness and technique.

Bama didn't even have Barrett single block studs inside. He had helped or simply walled guys.

This is why the fan base is crying in their beers every year.
[View Full Quote]They believe mid round picks are day 1 pro bowlers or some nonsense after the draft hype. It just doesn't work that way very often at all.

Your right on Barrett Jones being maxed out in college, Outland and Remington Trophy, all american citations playing OT, OG, and Center. He has had that foot injury before the final couple of games and he was not able to place weight on his injured foot they still managed to run right up the gut, of course they had Lacy which helps considerably. You are probably right it is just a fluke this kid maxed out at every position he played on the national championship team, lets go look for someone else. No way this kid has anything to contribute to our superior offensive line sorry Jerry I did not mean to out you. Send me another beer down here at the end of the bar. I hope we are not going to stick our head in the ground anymore and pray for someone in the third rd to start on the oline.

[xwalker]

Originally Posted by jterrell

nothing too shocking. everyone has some preferences.

the qb class is absolutely horrid imho.
dont have any issues with the rest of the offense. not a stellar offensive class but after qb the positions are about average.

i also believe barrett jones is a 3rd round type guy. issue with him is will he get any better? he rather is what he is. a smallish, not so powerful technician. wish i had senior bowl tape of him. right now i believe we have barrett jones and his name is david arkin.

i think richardson is every bit as good as fletcher cox last year. so he is prolly gone by 18 but that's my early target.
if not him then possibly an RT/RG.

i dont love any of these safeties enough to draft them at 18.
but i do want to come out of this draft with one. we need some depth at the position.

i like the wr and rb classes. maybe r5/r6 positions. depth guys who can be given roles day 1.

Many people have overrated Barrett Jones a little bit; however, comparing him to Arkin is just a cry for attention.

Before the injury/surgery, I thought he was a mid 2nd round pick. I don't think he was ever a 1st rounder. Now with the injury/surgery considered, I could see him falling to the late 2nd or early 3rd round.

The comparison that I've been using is Kyle Kosier. A solid NFL player with some limitations.

[burmafrd]

Originally Posted by marchetta

We've got one of those already... Costa.

Costa's problem has never been strength. Its footspeed. You can get stronger but there is nothing you can do about footspeed

[Bigdog24]

Originally Posted by Verdict

How far could Landry Jones fall?

Doesn't really matter IMO.....it would be a wasted draft pick for the Cowboys...... There were reasons why Bob Stoop would take Landry Jones off the field in the Redzone.....

Plus: when has the last time a player named Jones succeeded in Dallas.....Julius..nope....Pacman...nope.....Felix ...nope.....so NO to Landry Jones as well

[xwalker]

Originally Posted by jterrell

nothing too shocking. everyone has some preferences.

the qb class is absolutely horrid imho.
dont have any issues with the rest of the offense. not a stellar offensive class but after qb the positions are about average.

i also believe barrett jones is a 3rd round type guy. issue with him is will he get any better? he rather is what he is. a smallish, not so powerful technician. wish i had senior bowl tape of him. right now i believe we have barrett jones and his name is david arkin.

i think richardson is every bit as good as fletcher cox last year. so he is prolly gone by 18 but that's my early target.
if not him then possibly an RT/RG.

i dont love any of these safeties enough to draft them at 18.
but i do want to come out of this draft with one. we need some depth at the position.

i like the wr and rb classes. maybe r5/r6 positions. depth guys who can be given roles day 1.

Originally Posted by burmafrd

Costa's problem has never been strength. Its footspeed. You can get stronger but there is nothing you can do about footspeed

I've been reviewing all the OL players using the All-22 from NFL.com. Costa looks like Usain Bolt compared to Kyle Cook.

I don't think that Costa has footspeed issues. He played slow in the beginning of 2011 when he was a 2nd year player and 1st year starter. He also had some ankle issues in training camp and later in the season.

Costa's quickness measureables compare favorably with those of the Pouncey brothers.

Phil Costa
Height: 6025
Weight: 308
40 Yrd Dash: 5.12
20 Yrd Dash: 3.09
10 Yrd Dash: 1.60
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 30
Vertical Jump: 35
Broad Jump: 09'04"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.65
3-Cone Drill: 7.66

Maurkice Pouncey
Height: 6044
Weight: 304
40 Yrd Dash: 5.25
20 Yrd Dash: 2.94
10 Yrd Dash: 1.78
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 25
Vertical Jump: 27
Broad Jump: 07'11"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.92

Mike Pouncey
Height: 6050
Weight: 303
40 Yrd Dash: 5.12
20 Yrd Dash: 2.96
10 Yrd Dash: 1.78
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 24
Vertical Jump: 25
Broad Jump: 08'00"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.64
3-Cone Drill: 7.66

[jterrell]

Originally Posted by Macnalty

Your right on Barrett Jones being maxed out in college, Outland and Remington Trophy, all american citations playing OT, OG, and Center. He has had that foot injury before the final couple of games and he was not able to place weight on his injured foot they still managed to run right up the gut, of course they had Lacy which helps considerably. You are probably right it is just a fluke this kid maxed out at every position he played on the national championship team, lets go look for someone else. No way this kid has anything to contribute to our superior offensive line sorry Jerry I did not mean to out you. Send me another beer down here at the end of the bar. I hope we are not going to stick our head in the ground anymore and pray for someone in the third rd to start on the oline.

That's why Bama players ALWAYS dominate in the NFL right?

Award winners from college always pan out right?

[jterrell]

Originally Posted by xwalker

Many people have overrated Barrett Jones a little bit; however, comparing him to Arkin is just a cry for attention.

Before the injury/surgery, I thought he was a mid 2nd round pick. I don't think he was ever a 1st rounder. Now with the injury/surgery considered, I could see him falling to the late 2nd or early 3rd round.

The comparison that I've been using is Kyle Kosier. A solid NFL player with some limitations.

Barrett Jones
WEAKNESSES: Doesn't blow defenders off the ball with pure strength. Not a flashy athlete and may struggle to excel at the NFL level.

6'4" and 305.

David Arkin
6'4" and 300. http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/...kin?id=2495112

33 7/8 arms
25 reps.
5.36 40.
WEAKNESSES: Small school player who displays nastiness scouts love but lacks ideal size or strength. Dominated players on lower level. Needs time in NFL weight room.

I have also used Kyle Kosier and if you are looking at top end results for Jones that makes sense. But as a rookie? right now? Arkin makes more sense.

[burmafrd]

Originally Posted by xwalker

I've been reviewing all the OL players using the All-22 from NFL.com. Costa looks like Usain Bolt compared to Kyle Cook.

I don't think that Costa has footspeed issues. He played slow in the beginning of 2011 when he was a 2nd year player and 1st year starter. He also had some ankle issues in training camp and later in the season.

Costa's quickness measureables compare favorably with those of the Pouncey brothers.

Phil Costa
Height: 6025
Weight: 308
40 Yrd Dash: 5.12
20 Yrd Dash: 3.09
10 Yrd Dash: 1.60
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 30
Vertical Jump: 35
Broad Jump: 09'04"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.65
3-Cone Drill: 7.66

Maurkice Pouncey
Height: 6044
Weight: 304
40 Yrd Dash: 5.25
20 Yrd Dash: 2.94
10 Yrd Dash: 1.78
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 25
Vertical Jump: 27
Broad Jump: 07'11"
[View Full Quote]20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.92

Mike Pouncey
Height: 6050
Weight: 303
40 Yrd Dash: 5.12
20 Yrd Dash: 2.96
10 Yrd Dash: 1.78
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 24
Vertical Jump: 25
Broad Jump: 08'00"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.64
3-Cone Drill: 7.66

yeah and players always match what their combine numbers show?

Costa just cannot move quick enough. Several people very familiar with O line play have commented on this. That is why he always looks bad when he has to move quickly. When he can stay in place he does fine as he is very strong. But forcing him to move quickly just is not what he can do.

[Rack Bauer]

I don't give a rat's behind what combine numbers are for linemen. Running fast on a track and playing fast are NOT THE SAME THING.

[xwalker]

Originally Posted by burmafrd

yeah and players always match what their combine numbers show?

Costa just cannot move quick enough. Several people very familiar with O line play have commented on this. That is why he always looks bad when he has to move quickly. When he can stay in place he does fine as he is very strong. But forcing him to move quickly just is not what he can do.

He has gotten jacked-up by DLinemen while on the move; however, it was not due to lack of footspeed. He must play with perfect technique due to his short arms. His technique was not good at the beginning of 2011; however, it got much better by the end of that season and in the limited number of snaps that he played in 2012.

Any way you look at it, either through measureables or by viewing game footage, Costa has much better footspeed than Kyle Cook. It's not even close.

Like it or not, NFL teams value measureables. They spend money on the combine for a reason.