2013 NFL Draft's top prospect: Luke Joeckel vs. Chance Warmack - Dallas Cowboys Forum

w8lifter · 02-14-2013

2013 NFL Draft's top prospect: Luke Joeckel vs. Chance Warmack

One of the fascinating things about the draft process is how two scouts can look at the same class of prospects and come to completely different conclusions. There is much room for interpretation.

That fact is especially relevant in years like this one, when there is no clear-cut top talent. Absent relatively automatic draft picks like Andrew Luck and Robert Griffin III, the skill of a team's personnel department takes on an extra level of importance.

With that in mind, former NFL scouts Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks -- two veterans of the draft-preparation trenches -- attempt to identify the best overall prospect in the 2013 draft class, providing a taste of the debates that will rage across the league as April's event draws closer.

http://www.nfl.com/combine/story/0ap...ATL_newsdriver

w8lifter · 02-14-2013

I realize this article is a few days old and most all of use scan NFL.com regularly, but I figured this article was worth talking about since the Cowboys have a HUGE need for good O-Line players this year.

I also realize Jerry Jones does not like using 1st round picks on OL, but he cant be TOTALLY clueless to the fact we need some good protection for Romo & good run blockers NOW!!

So, lets hear what ya'll have to say about these players.

burmafrd · 02-14-2013

depends on how good the scouts are. I would like to see who these guys were right and wrong about in the past- that way you can tell whether they know what they are talking about.

xwalker · 02-14-2013

Generally, you have to take OTs if they're on the same tier as the OG. This is not because OG is not important to the team. It's because OTs cost more in Free Agency. The draft is basically a cap management tool. A team can never afford to have all multi-year veterans at ever position.

The Cowboys will not have to make that choice.

At best, they might get to choose between Lane Johnson and Warmack, not Joeckel and Warmack.

If you believe the NFL.com grades, then Warmack and Joeckel are on the same tier; whereas, Johnson is a tier below.

95.9 Chance Warmack
95.3 Luke Joeckel
91.3 Eric Fisher
86.9 Lane Johnson

Long term, a team should have more cap problems if they repeatedly draft OGs over OTs or 4-3 LBs over defensive linemen; however, the number one goal is to be certain that the player drafted is going to be a draft hit. This year OGs Warmack and Cooper seem like very safe picks while also having high upside. Contrast this with many of the DL that have some question marks.

You only have to look back at 2009 and Max Unger to see how "reaching" for an OG/OC would have been a much better option than the alternative. The Cowboy really wanted Unger and in hindsight, should have traded away some later round picks to move up and guarantee that they got him.

burmafrd · 02-14-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by xwalker

Generally, you have to take OTs if they're on the same tier as the OG. This is not because OG is not important to the team. It's because OTs cost more in Free Agency. The draft is basically a cap management tool. A team can never afford to have all multi-year veterans at ever position.

The Cowboys will not have to make that choice.

At best, they might get to choose between Lane Johnson and Warmack, not Joeckel and Warmack.

If you believe the NFL.com grades, then Warmack and Joeckel are on the same tier; whereas, Johnson is a tier below.

95.9 Chance Warmack
95.3 Luke Joeckel
91.3 Eric Fisher
86.9 Lane Johnson

[View Full Quote]

bottom line is that in the end despite what he might say Jeruh was unwilling to go to the lengths to get an O lineman that for example he went to to get Dez.

O linemen are not shiny toys

**ABQCOWBOY** · 02-14-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by burmafrd

bottom line is that in the end despite what he might say Jeruh was unwilling to go to the lengths to get an O lineman that for example he went to to get Dez.

O linemen are not shiny toys

I tend to agree with this.

I hope I'm wrong.

newlander · 02-18-2013

You only have to look back at 2009 and Max Unger to see how "reaching" for an OG/OC would have been a much better option than the alternative. The Cowboy really wanted Unger and in hindsight, should have traded away some later round picks to move up and guarantee that they got him.[/quote]

....about that statement....but that's the UTTER insanity of Jones and Co. when drafting. They'll trade away vital picks for Dez or Claiborne but if they need Unger or Konz or many other olinemen I could name they balk. Are they that ignorant or just stubborn? Dunno but it's resulted in 6-10 wins for the last 17yrs. MIGHT wanna consider a philosophical change and start drafting as many interior linemen on BOTH sides of the ball as possible. I could even live with our safeties again this year as long as we get 4 interior linemen: we need a center and a guard at minimum and two def. tackles as well. Some would say we also need another off. tackle so that would make 5 interior linemen which of course won't happen....NO organization should be this GUTTED on the interior lines.....clown show goes on.

ABQcowboyJR · 02-18-2013

It is an interesting take on the situation. I tend to think that their is a better OT and OG in this draft.

**ABQCOWBOY** · 02-18-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by ABQcowboyJR

It is an interesting take on the situation. I tend to think that their is a better OT and OG in this draft.

Completely agree with this. Joeckel isn't the best LT in this draft IMO. Chance is a great player but it depends on the scheme and what you need from our Guard. Best LG in this draft is probably Cooper, especially in a ZBS.

burmafrd · 02-19-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by ABQCOWBOY

Completely agree with this. Joeckel isn't the best LT in this draft IMO. Chance is a great player but it depends on the scheme and what you need from our Guard. Best LG in this draft is probably Cooper, especially in a ZBS.

Frankly I am tired of dancing guys who get blown out and cannot blow anyone out. I want one NASTY CRUSHING SOB on our line.

**ABQCOWBOY** · 02-19-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by burmafrd

Frankly I am tired of dancing guys who get blown out and cannot blow anyone out. I want one NASTY CRUSHING SOB on our line.

Fair point but you will be just as tired if you draft somebody who isn't that guy or doesn't fit the scheme.

burmafrd · 02-19-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by ABQCOWBOY

Fair point but you will be just as tired if you draft somebody who isn't that guy or doesn't fit the scheme.

and just blindly take only those that fit your 'scheme'

I call BS on that. No reason you can't have one guy on your O line that is the big nasty. Sure might mean the OC has to work a little more but so what?

**ABQCOWBOY** · 02-19-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by burmafrd

and just blindly take only those that fit your 'scheme'

I call BS on that. No reason you can't have one guy on your O line that is the big nasty. Sure might mean the OC has to work a little more but so what?

I'm game. Explain the blind approach you elude to in this post and we can discuss further.

As to your approach to how the OC needs to work, BS is about exactly right. Calling out the OC for what kind of players they draft is an exercise in BS. You can't effect that and complaining to me or anybody on this board is not going to solve it. Heck, at this point, your point may not even be correct.

That, to me, is wasted effort. You can engage in it if you wish but it's not going to solve anything. It's just going to get you more upset.

tm1119 · 02-19-2013

Sorry, but there's no logical argument that Cooper is better than Warmack...in any scheme. Or aspect of playing guard for that matter. Its really not that close. Sorry ABQ, but you might be like 1 of 4 people on earth with that opinion. I respect your opinion and the fact that you try and defend it with intelligent debate, but theres just no way man. Warmack is on another level.

**ABQCOWBOY** · 02-19-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by tm1119

Sorry, but there's no logical argument that Cooper is better than Warmack...in any scheme. Or aspect of playing guard for that matter. Its really not that close. Sorry ABQ, but you might be like 1 of 4 people on earth with that opinion. I respect your opinion and the fact that you try and defend it with intelligent debate, but theres just no way man. Warmack is on another level.

I don't agree at all. Cooper is better as a LG in that scheme. He is more mobile, he is better to the second level and he is better at hitting moving targets. If there are only 4 people in the world who can see that, so be it.