'This Will Make Voter Fraud Easier' - Dallas Cowboys Forum

**trickblue** · 11-02-2007

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'This Will Make Voter Fraud Easier'
Why does Mrs. Clinton want driver's licenses for illegal aliens?
by John Fund

Friday, November 2, 2007 12:01 a.m. EDT

Sen. Hillary Clinton was asked during a debate this week if she supported New York Gov. Eliot Spitzer's plan to give driver's licenses to illegal immigrants. At first she seemed to endorse the idea, then claimed, "I did not say that it should be done, but I certainly recognize why Governor Spitzer is trying to do it."

The next day she took a firmer stand (sort of) by offering general support for Gov. Spitzer's approach, but adding that she hadn't studied his specific plan. She should, and so should the rest of us. It stops just short of being an engraved invitation for people to commit voter fraud.

The background here is the National Voter Registration Act, commonly known as "Motor Voter," that President Bill Clinton signed into law in 1993. It required all states to offer voter registration to anyone getting a driver's license. One simply fills out a form and checks a box stating he is a citizen; he is then registered and in most states does not have to show any ID to vote.

But no one checks if the person registering to vote is indeed a citizen. That greatly concerns New York election officials, who processed 245,000 voter registrations at DMV offices last year. "It would be [tough to catch] if someone wanted to . . . get a number of people registered who aren't citizens and went ahead and got them drivers' licenses," says Lee Daghlian, spokesman for New York's Board of Elections. Assemblywoman Ginny Fields, a Long Island Democrat, warns that the state's "Board of Elections has no voter police" and that the state probably has upwards of 500,000 illegal immigrants old enough to drive.

The potential for fraud is not trivial, as federal privacy laws prevent cross-checking voter registration rolls with immigration records. Nevertheless, a 1997 Congressional investigation found that "4,023 illegal voters possibly cast ballots in [a] disputed House election" in California. After 9/11, the Justice Department found that eight of the 19 hijackers were registered to vote.

Under pressure from liberal groups, some states have even abandoned the requirement that people check a citizenship box to be put on the voter rolls. Iowa has told local registrars they should register people even if they leave the citizenship box blank. Maryland officials wave illegal immigrants through the registration process, prompting a Justice Department letter warning they may be helping people violate federal law.

Gov. Spitzer is treading perilously close to that. Despite a tactical retreat this week--he says he will only give illegal immigrants a license that isn't valid for airplane travel and entering federal buildings--Mr. Spitzer has taken active steps to obliterate any distinctions between licenses given to citizens and non-citizens.

In a memo last Sept. 24, he ordered county clerks to remove the visa expiration date and "temporary visitor" stamp on licenses issued to non-citizens who are legally in the country. A Spitzer spokeswoman explained the change was made because the "temporary" label was "pejorative," given that some visitors might eventually stay in the U.S. Under fire, Mr. Spitzer backed down this week, delaying the cancellation of the "temporary visitor" stamps through the end of next year.

But he has not retreated from another new bizarre policy. It used to be that county clerks who process driver's licenses were banned from giving out voter registration forms to anyone without a Social Security number. No longer. Lou Dobbs of CNN reported that an Oct. 19 memo from the state DMV informed the clerks they don't "have any statutory discretion to withhold a motor voter form." What's more, the computer block preventing a DMV clerk from transmitting a motor voter registration without a Social Security number was removed.

Gov. Spitzer's office told me the courts have upheld their position on Social Security numbers. Sandy DePerno, the Democratic clerk of Oneida County, says that makes no sense. "This makes voter fraud easier," she told me.

While states such as New York are increasing the risk of such fraud, a half-dozen states have recently adopted laws requiring voters to offer proof of identity or citizenship before casting a ballot. A federal commission, co-chaired by former President Jimmy Carter and former Secretary of State James Baker, gave such laws a big boost in 2005 when it called for a nationwide policy requiring a photo ID before voting.

Mr. Carter has personal knowledge of why such laws are needed. He recounts in his book "Turning Point" how his 1962 race for Georgia State Senate involved a local sheriff who had cast votes for the dead. It took a recount and court challenge before Mr. Carter was declared the winner.

Measures that curb voter fraud on the one hand and encourage it on the other will be central to the 2008 election. The Supreme Court will rule on the constitutionality of Indiana's photo ID law next spring, while lawsuits challenging Gov. Spitzer's moves will be in New York state courts.

Despite her muddled comments this week, there's no doubt where Mrs. Clinton stands on ballot integrity. She opposes photo ID laws, even though they enjoy over 80% support in the polls. She has also introduced a bill to force every state to offer no-excuse absentee voting as well as Election Day registration--easy avenues for election chicanery. The bill requires that every state restore voting rights to all criminals who have completed their prison terms, parole or probation.

Pollster Scott Rasmussen notes that Mrs. Clinton is such a polarizing figure that she attracts between 46% and 49% support no matter which Republican candidate she's pitted against--even libertarian Ron Paul. She knows she may have trouble winning next year. Maybe that's why she's thrown herself in with those who will look the other way as a new electoral majority is formed--even if that includes non-citizens, felons and those who suddenly cross a state line on Election Day and decide they want to vote someplace new.

Mr. Fund, a columnist for OpinionJournal.com, is author of a forthcoming revised edition of "Stealing Elections: How Voter Fraud Threatens Our Democracy."

jterrell · 11-02-2007

lol. Gotta mention Hillary for anyone to care

Hillary stated the current system has put Spitzer in position to need to make a tough decision on illegal aliens and she would support him taking action but can not support the plan de facto.

But of course claiming Spitzer's actual plan is errant isn't newsworthy and a Rush Limbaugh ghostwriter would be smart enough to toss Hillary's name in there.

CanadianCowboysFan · 11-02-2007

It is clear an illegal is going to drive at some point. Shouldn't you insist he/she have a licence so that you know he/she has at least a basic level of driving skill?

burmafrd · 11-02-2007

So you just authorize someone in the country illegally to operate a vehicle illegally?

**trickblue** · 11-02-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanadianCowboysFan

It is clear an illegal is going to drive at some point. Shouldn't you insist he/she have a licence so that you know he/she has at least a basic level of driving skill?

Set aside they shouldn't be here at all for a minute...

The Motor Voter Bill was signed into law under the Clinton Administration. I basically states that anyone with a valid drivers license can vote. That is the issue...

**BrAinPaiNt** · 11-02-2007

The whole license for illegals may be one of the dumbest things I have ever heard.

Honestly.

If IA (illegal aliens) will not go through the proper channels for a work visa or through the regular process of becoming a citizen.

What makes these people think they will go and get a drivers license?

Furthermore if the Immigration department is already short handed, already don't have enough money or time to do what is already on the shelf...why put in yet ANOTHER step to drain money, man power and hours.

It is just a dumb Idea IMO.

I tell you what. Tell illegal immigrants they are going to allow them to get drivers license. Tell them to be at the DOV at a certain time on a certain date.

For those that show up...arrest them and deport them for being...Illegal Aliens.

burmafrd · 11-02-2007

Interesting how the liberals fight tooth and nail for voters to NOT have to present ID to vote- but they want to give Illegals a government ID.

CanadianCowboysFan · 11-02-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by burmafrd

Interesting how the liberals fight tooth and nail for voters to NOT have to present ID to vote- but they want to give Illegals a government ID.

why do you always have to label people as either conservative or liberal?

BTW Bumfard, if you have a licence, you are not driving illegally.

Change the law that instead of just having a licence to vote, make someone show proof of US citizenship.

It is probably moot though as someone who is illegal probably wouldnt' take the necessary steps to get a driver's licence because they know their illegal status would probably show up.

silverbear · 11-02-2007

So you put in place an apparatus for checking that those who check the box saying they are a citizen are indeed what they claim... put in stiff penalties for those who lie about that...

I favor this because there are benefits to all of us in requiring even illegal aliens to get a driver's license in order to drive in this country...

silverbear · 11-02-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by burmafrd

So you just authorize someone in the country illegally to operate a vehicle illegally?

Yes...

They're here, they're gonna drive, doesn't it make sense to ensure they understand our rules of the road...

Why would you give them a pass on paying the same fees you and I have to pay to drive?? Seems to me that's giving them FAVORABLE treatment...

silverbear · 11-02-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by trickblue

Set aside they shouldn't be here at all for a minute...

The Motor Voter Bill was signed into law under the Clinton Administration. I basically states that anyone with a valid drivers license can vote. That is the issue...

So you amend the law to read that only American citizens with a valid driver's license can vote... end of issue...

silverbear · 11-02-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by trickblue

Set aside they shouldn't be here at all for a minute...

The Motor Voter Bill was signed into law under the Clinton Administration. I basically states that anyone with a valid drivers license can vote. That is the issue...

So you amend the law to read that only American citizens with a valid driver's license can vote... that's how it should have read to begin with... I rather doubt that such a proposed amendment would meet with much disagreement, indeed I'd expect it to pass unanimously... end of issue...

**BrAinPaiNt** · 11-03-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by silverbear

So you amend the law to read that only American citizens with a valid driver's license can vote... end of issue...

From my understanding it would not be the same driver license that legal citizens would have so it should not be hard to know whether to let someone vote or not.

That is just a goofy ploy by politicians to scare someone that these people could vote.

That, IMO, is not the real issue or problem with providing them with driver licenses in the first place.

The issue is, if they are not going to apply for citizenship or work visas than they should not be allowed to apply for a license.

I just don't understand why people can not grasp that idea.

If they want to go through legal means to apply for work visa's or citizenship first, once they are documented in some fashion to show they are going through the process legally...THEN they can apply for a driver license. If they do not go through the first process than they should never get a driver license.

Again I think it would be a simple concept to grasp. And even if they go through the whole process and then get a driver license...they only get a special license that says they can not vote until they actually finish the process and become a us citizen legally.

peplaw06 · 11-03-2007

Yeah, let's get more people on the roads who won't get insurance.

silverbear · 11-03-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrAinPaiNt

From my understanding it would not be the same driver license that legal citizens would have so it should not be hard to know whether to let someone vote or not.

That is just a goofy ploy by politicians to scare someone that these people could vote.

That, IMO, is not the real issue or problem with providing them with driver licenses in the first place.

The issue is, if they are not going to apply for citizenship or work visas than they should not be allowed to apply for a license.

I just don't understand why people can not grasp that idea.

If they want to go through legal means to apply for work visa's or citizenship first, once they are documented in some fashion to show they are going through the process legally...THEN they can apply for a driver license. If they do not go through the first process than they should never get a driver license.

[View Full Quote]

I understand all that you're saying, pal, but to me this is simple-- the safety issue outweighs the political issue... these illegals are here, so until we can figure out how to stop them from coming, it seems good policy to make sure that if they're gonna drive, they're gonna know, and hopefully obey, the rules of the road...

I'd make 'em take the written part in English, though...