personal email thread... may be entertaining. just opinions....

[jterrell]

To set the scene here a buddy of mine works on Sun servers at the Air Force base for the Air Force in Alabama. He's upper 30's, white, dad was an Air Force helicopter mechanic.

BTW, this was not written with expectations of publicizing it so it not edited for more than my own opinions.
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Our exchange started when he sent me those political quizzes I posted previously...I tried to steer him here but he posts on ls2.com. The old Vette engine boards....

His response to me invitation to post here----------------------------------\\

ls2.com is similar. However the handful of more "liberal" leaning people are all very well spoken and politically educated, so they end up dominating discussions, even if they are out numbered. Making it no fun for me.. :-( Who wants to trail behind someone, not adding anything of merit, just "yeah what he said" more or less. :-\

There are a few "way out" there "liberals", however most would be considered moderate, where as many of the self proclaimed "conservatives" are unarguably extremists. The most disturbing trend is the large population of law enforcement officers are some of the worst. :-(

To be fair, it's the young officers that are rather militant extremist. While the guys you can tell are older officers and former officers are far more in the realm of reason.

It's interesting how the population of the board years ago was ridiculously left leaning. It was when I was one of the conservatives. The population was largely young, recent college gratuates in either engineering or information technology. It was back when the motor (from which the site(s) got their names) was in new GM performance cars. Now that the autos have aged a decade out, the board's population has changed considerably.

That's not a negative or positive comment, just interesting. Also interesting how it's clear that one is labeled one view or the other from the other's point of view and not on any clear 'standard'.

I've also noticed the extremist "left" and "right" often have very little in the way of arguments, they only repeat talking points they've heard before and are completely unable to actually argue the points behind them. What one witnesses is how (in time) it's the more moderate left and moderate right that take control of debates and have anything sublative to discuss. Which I find reassuring.. Though this doesn't seem to play out in the larger stage for some reason. :-\


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and my response----------


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It's ironic but when we first met we were both essentially conservatives....

I was already severely annoyed at Bush and you were well on your way.

I think being in IT was part of it.
But the bigger part was seeing how we deal with the economy and especially the "global" part.

We basically sell our citizens out so businesses can make money.

Shell and Exxon et al make huge dividends each quarter but are not even wholly American. Shell is owned by a Dutch/English firm. Exxon has a huge international arm. We still live the trickle down crap like it actually works. And it does, for India and China. We tricklle down lots of cash to them.

Americans are merely the target sales audience.
It really is sad.

We definitely need to balance our budget, pay down our national debt and focus on protecting America by insuring we have plans in place HERE.

We used to attract the best and brightest from other countries but now we want those will perform menial tasks for no pay. I.E we want near-slave labor. We are no longer a meritocracy and have become a big corporate shill. I used to giggle at that notion(same folks are preparing for invasion by the green aliens right??) but man the evidence has become staggering.

And not ironically the boards are very similar.
There are only a few liberal posters but many moderates and then a few hardcore conservatives. The further right you move the less IQ is evident. At the far left you may have some zaniness but definite intellect. I am a middle of the road guy in all honestly but the country has moved to the far right. I still favor the Death Penalty, favor a balanced budget, favor a strong but efficient military.... 20+ years ago that was enough to warrant being a Republican. Now that makes you a pinko commie liberal.... lol.

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[Vintage]

Interesting. I have a theory but it would offend some.

Although seeing this particular person getting offended would be rather humorous.

[ScipioCowboy]

Originally Posted by jterrell

There are only a few liberal posters but many moderates and then a few hardcore conservatives. The further right you move the less IQ is evident. At the far left you may have some zaniness but definite intellect.

Really?

Is that so?

I was wondering if you would be willing to expound upon this little theory of yours? Can you repost the specific statements in which I've demonstrated less intellect than you zany, brainy liberals?

[Cajuncowboy]

Originally Posted by ScipioCowboy

Really?

Is that so?

I was wondering if you would be willing to expound upon this little theory of yours? Can you repost the specific statements in which I've demonstrated less intellect than you zany, brainy liberals?

Oh I would dearly love to see that as well.

[jterrell]

Originally Posted by ScipioCowboy

Really?

Is that so?

I was wondering if you would be willing to expound upon this little theory of yours? Can you repost the specific statements in which I've demonstrated less intellect than you zany, brainy liberals?

I did not name names and do not consider you to be to the far right.

I think regardless of sides one can posit fairly accurately where one lies in an ability to make a basic argument.

But beyond that the general opinion came form someone on another board who has never read a simple post here and I merely concurred.

[ScipioCowboy]

Originally Posted by jterrell

I did not name names and do not consider you to be to the far right.

I think regardless of sides one can posit fairly accurately where one lies in an ability to make a basic argument.

But beyond that the general opinion came form someone on another board who has never read a simple post here and I merely concurred.

Puh-lease.

Seldom have I seen a more facile attempt at deflection. You expressed an opinion, and now that you're being pressed to corroborate it, you're trying to pass it off as your friend's opinion by mischaracterizing his email.

Your deflection might've worked if you hadn't posted your friend's actual comments verbatim for the entire board to see: He said nothing about the intelligence inherent to liberals and conservatives; he merely stated that the liberals on his board were "well spoken" and "politically educated." Knowledge of political issues is rarely indicative of overall intelligence.

It seems you're using your friend's limited and isolated experiences to support your own crass, unsubstantiated generalizations about the conservatives and liberals on this board. And to make your untenable position even more precarious, you refuse to own up to those generalizations, to lay claim to your own words.

Your assertion that "you do not consider me to be far right" is quite revealing. Granted, I have little need for labels, but virtually everyone I've encountered has described me as very conservative: I'm pro-life, pro-second amendment, and against federal funding for stem cell research. I'm very religious, and I support the most conservative Republican presendential candidate--Ron Paul. Therefore, it's interesting that you, who thrives on labels, would conclude otherwise.

It seems your mind has developed a defense mechanism designed to protect your own self-concept and view of reality: You believe conservatives, by nature, are stupid; consequently, when you encounter a person who espouses conservative views yet exhibits some level of intelligence that you can't simply dismiss, your defense mechanism kicks in and tells you that the person in question isn't "too conservative." How convenient.

Also, given your supposition that there is an inverse relationship between conservatism and intelligence (i.e. more conservatism = less intelligence), I'm curious as to which liberals on this board have demonstrated more intelligence than I have, given that many posters on this board, such as yourself, seem to be more liberal than I.

If your superior intellect would humor me for a moment, I'd like to present you with an alternate explanation: Maybe, just maybe, a person's political views have little or no bearing on his or her intelligence. Did you ever consider that?

You asked for opinions on this email, and here's mine: You have an obsessive need to stereotype and generalize everyone with whom you disagree, and you use these ill-conceived generalizations as basis for assessing a person's intelligence--an assessment that almost always reinforces your own fragile self-concept and specious view of reality.

If you're going to make unfounded generalizations, you could, at the very least, own up to them.

[jterrell]

Originally Posted by ScipioCowboy

Puh-lease.

Seldom have I seen a more facile attempt at deflection. You expressed an opinion, and now that you're being pressed to corroborate it, you're trying to pass it off as your friend's opinion by mischaracterizing his email.

Your deflection might've worked if you hadn't posted your friend's actual comments verbatim for the entire board to see: He said nothing about the intelligence inherent to liberals and conservatives; he merely stated that the liberals on his board were "well spoken" and "politically educated." Knowledge of political issues is rarely indicative of overall intelligence.

It seems you're using your friend's limited and isolated experiences to support your own crass, unsubstantiated generalizations about the conservatives and liberals on this board. And to make your untenable position even more precarious, you refuse to own up to those generalizations, to lay claim to your own words.
[View Full Quote]
Your assertion that "you do not consider me to be far right" is quite revealing. Granted, I have little need for labels, but virtually everyone I've encountered has described me as very conservative: I'm pro-life, pro-second amendment, and against federal funding for stem cell research. I'm very religious, and I support the most conservative Republican presendential candidate--Ron Paul. Therefore, it's interesting that you, who thrives on labels, would conclude otherwise.

It seems your mind has developed a defense mechanism designed to protect your own self-concept and view of reality: You believe conservatives, by nature, are stupid; consequently, when you encounter a person who espouses conservative views yet exhibits some level of intelligence that you can't simply dismiss, your defense mechanism kicks in and tells you that the person in question isn't "too conservative." How convenient.

Also, given your supposition that there is an inverse relationship between conservatism and intelligence (i.e. more conservatism = less intelligence), I'm curious as to which liberals on this board have demonstrated more intelligence than I have, given that many posters on this board, such as yourself, seem to be more liberal than I.

If your superior intellect would humor me for a moment, I'd like to present you with an alternate explanation: Maybe, just maybe, a person's political views have little or no bearing on his or her intelligence. Did you ever consider that?

You asked for opinions on this email, and here's mine: You have an obsessive need to stereotype and generalize everyone with whom you disagree, and you use these ill-conceived generalizations as basis for assessing a person's intelligence--an assessment that almost always reinforces your own fragile self-concept and specious view of reality.

If you're going to make unfounded generalizations, you could, at the very least, own up to them.

This was his quote:

However the handful of more "liberal" leaning people are all very well spoken and politically educated, so they end up dominating discussions, even if they are out numbered.


And my response...

And not ironically the boards are very similar.
There are only a few liberal posters but many moderates and then a few hardcore conservatives. The further right you move the less IQ is evident.

So he said .... very well spoken and politically educated on the liberal side
and I said The further right you move the less IQ is evident....

Not exactly a big contrast huh.
If you are attempting to prove reading comprehension suffers as you move right you have succeeded.

Further I stated many times it was merely my raw opinions and that was all.

While I may now question your reading comprehension I do not think you suffer from a lack of IQ.

[iceberg]

Originally Posted by ScipioCowboy

You asked for opinions on this email, and here's mine: You have an obsessive need to stereotype and generalize everyone with whom you disagree, and you use these ill-conceived generalizations as basis for assessing a person's intelligence--an assessment that almost always reinforces your own fragile self-concept and specious view of reality.

gonna be hard to get happy after that one.

[ScipioCowboy]

Originally Posted by jterrell

This was his quote:

So he said .... very well spoken and politically educated on the liberal side
and I said The further right you move the less IQ is evident....

Not exactly a big contrast huh.

Actually, there's a huge "contrast" here.

There's not a single, legitimate IQ test that evaluates your intelligence based on...

a) ...your political ideology.

b) ...how well you employ words.

c) ...your debate prowess.

Furthermore, these abilities are not sole determinents of intelligence, and I challenge you to prove they are. I've met some very smart people who are completely ignorant of politics and couldn't formulate a political argument if their life depended on it.

If you are attempting to prove reading comprehension suffers as you move right you have succeeded.

Laughable.

You're clearly ill-equipped to assess anyone else's reading comprehension abilities when you've repeatedly demonstrated misunderstanding of what an IQ test actually tests.