Holy Mackeral!

[Cajuncowboy]

And some people think America and Bush is the reason we are threatened.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,344409,00.html

Report: Non-Muslims Deserve to Be Punished

Tuesday, April 01, 2008

A report posted on Islam Watch, a site run by Muslims who oppose intolerant teachings and hatred for unbelievers, exposes a prominent Islamic cleric and lawyer who support extreme punishment for non-Muslims — including killing and rape.

A question-and-answer session with Imam Abdul Makin in an East London mosque asks why Allah would tell Muslims to kill and rape innocent non-Muslims, including their wives and daughters, according to Islam Watch.

"Because non-Muslims are never innocent, they are guilty of denying Allah and his prophet," the Imam says, according to the report. "If you don't believe me, here is the legal authority, the top Muslim lawyer of Britain."

The lawyer, Anjem Choudary, backs up the Imam's position, saying that all Muslims are innocent.

Click here to watch the interview with Islamic lawyer Anjem Choudary.

"You are innocent if you are a Muslim," Choudary tells the BBC. "Then you are innocent in the eyes of God. If you are not a Muslim, then you are guilty of not believing in God."

Choudary said he would not condemn a Muslim for any action.

"As a Muslim, I must support my Muslim brothers and sisters," Choudary said. "I must have hatred to everything that is not Muslim."

[vta]

---So not get shut down, I'm going to try to restrict my comments to reactions and not debating the religion.

There are plenty of extremists with this view - watch Fitna, when you get a chance, and you'll see the type.

The problem is, in almost all instances of societies, the minority is usually cacophonous and garners the most attention. I do think there is a problem with Islam, but most of it is apathy and fear. Not enough are willing to speak out against this ideology and the one's who do, like Wafa Sultan and Hirsi Ali, are forced to live in hiding with bodyguards, because of numerous death threats.

I've read dozens of articles like this, this year alone. It's not uncommon.
I'm surprised that the reaction to Fitna hasn't caused as much damage as the cartoons did. There have been some sound reasoning in protest, along with the inevitable death threats, but as far as I know, no one has ben killed.

[Jon88]

Does not surprise me in the least.

Same people who make car bombs with ball bearings.

[jman]

Ahhh...one word...Catholics?

Isn't that the basic belief? If you are not of the Catholic Faith you are not "in" with God?

Again, an extreem view, but on point.

[vta]

Originally Posted by jman

Ahhh...one word...Catholics?

Isn't that the basic belief? If you are not of the Catholic Faith you are not "in" with God?

Again, an extreem view, but on point.

The Catholic faith doesn't espouse hatred for non-Catholics, let alone allowances of rape and murder.

[Jon88]

Originally Posted by vta

The Catholic faith doesn't espouse hatred for non-Catholics, let alone allowances of rape and murder.

Just one slight difference.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Originally Posted by vta

The Catholic faith doesn't espouse hatred for non-Catholics, let alone allowances of rape and murder.

They don't....now.

[big dog cowboy]

Originally Posted by Cajuncowboy

"You are innocent if you are a Muslim," Choudary tells the BBC. "Then you are innocent in the eyes of God. If you are not a Muslim, then you are guilty of not believing in God."

Whatever you say pal.

[iceberg]

Originally Posted by jman

Ahhh...one word...Catholics?

Isn't that the basic belief? If you are not of the Catholic Faith you are not "in" with God?

Again, an extreem view, but on point.

i was born and raised roman catholic. i was an alter boy for several years through jr high and i delivered several sermons during summer camps to the entire congregation. i attended ccd classes through high school and held many religious debates with priests throughout my active practice of that faith.

what you and God do is between you and God and what I/we believe really has nothing to do with whether or not we feel you'll be allowed in Heaven.

next time try an accurate point of view for a point.

[Dallas]

Originally Posted by BrAinPaiNt

They don't....now.

See Paint. This is what is irritating to me with regard to your drive by postings. You make this claim of the Catholic Church promoting rape but you source JACK when doing it.

Please show me a source in history where it specifially states the Pope calling for the rape of the innocent.

You show me that and I will eat my words sir.

With all do respect Horned Mod. I am banking you cannot.

[iceberg]

Originally Posted by Dallas

See Paint. This is what is irritating to me with regard to your drive by postings. You make this claim of the Catholic Church promoting rape but you source JACK when doing it.

Please show me a source in history where it specifially states the Pope calling for the rape of the innocent.

You show me that and I will eat my words sir.

With all do respect Horned Mod. I am banking you cannot.

i think he's talking about the inquestion in general.

the inquestion was started by the pope to stop heresy and while "rape of the innocent" may be an extreme example, burning at the stake and several forms of torture were called for.

by the pope.

those were bad dark times dude. innocent was also a relative term, so that's harder to say it would be called for. the pope may not call for the rape of the innocent unless you pissed him off and suddenly you were no longer "innocent". making you guilty was pretty easy back then.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08026a.htm

but if the catholics were wrong at the time (and they were, vastly) so are the muslems now (extreme) and as far as i know it's always been in their religion to "kill the infidel" and that, however, is not the case for catholicism.

[Jon88]

Originally Posted by iceberg

i think he's talking about the inquestion in general.

the inquestion was started by the pope to stop heresy and while "rape of the innocent" may be an extreme example, burning at the stake and several forms of torture were called for.

by the pope.

those were bad dark times dude. innocent was also a relative term, so that's harder to say it would be called for. the pope may not call for the rape of the innocent unless you pissed him off and suddenly you were no longer "innocent". making you guilty was pretty easy back then.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08026a.htm

but if the catholics were wrong at the time (and they were, vastly) so are the muslems now (extreme) and as far as i know it's always been in their religion to "kill the infidel" and that, however, is not the case for catholicism.

That was then (and wrong). It's 2008 and these people are still preaching that.

[Jon88]

Taken from http://theproblemwithmostarabmuslims...lood-cult.html

Most Muslims have "theories" about 9/11 Islamists' massacre.
99.99% of Muslims that "denounce" [if at all] Islamic terror massacres on non Muslims, imply the word "but".
Most Arabs are so racist, most Muslims are so intolerant, they just can't bring themselves to be grateful to the US for rescuing Iraqi Arab men, women & children from the butcher & torturer of Baghdad: Saddam Hussein.
There was not one shred of gratitude from any known Muslim leader or group for US & Europe's rescuing of Bosnian Muslims in the 1990's. anti west is still going strong instead
There was not one declaration of thank you from any known Muslim leader or organization for US saving of Somali Muslims in the 1990's. but on the contrary, their hatred only grew.
Virtually all of the minorities are persecuted in the entire Muslim world: Christians, Druze, Kurds, Ahwazi Arabs, Marsh Arabs, Jews, Berbers, non-Arab Africans in the Sudan [by racist Arab militias in cooperation with Sudanese Islamic government], non-Arab Africans in Mauritania, Nubians, Copts, Assyrians, Maronites, Chinese in Indonesia, etc.
Did one [mainstream] single Muslim cleric come up and say that the Koranic term [reminder, only Islamists kill, torture in the name of religion & book] 'apes & pigs', the Islamists call the non Muslims, are not to be followed?
While [not only most Jews or even most Israelis, but even] most Zionist Jews sympathize with Arab 'Palestinian' fallen unintentionally in the war on terror, but almost all Arabs & Muslims demonize Israeli victims of intentional Arab-Muslims violent crimes against humanity.
While Arabs live in Israel not only just better & more free [women voting, real free speech, etc.] than in all of their own regimes, but treated often as first class citizens ahead of Israeli Jews (courts, land issues, etc.), Jews, however, are either not allowed to live in certain Arab countries [apartheid, ethnic cleansing, etc. Syria even denies any entry for a Jew,] or persecuted in most Arab countries.
Which Arab Muslim nation is exempt of the epidemic of criminal 'honor killing'?
If Pro terror Muslim organizations like CAIR [ http://anti-cair-net.org ] is defined as "moderate", what would one call their mainstream?
Roughly 90% of Arabs polled, have a negative view on all Jews [not just being 'anti-Zionism', whatever that means], even in such [so called 'moderate'] countries like: Jordan.
"White" Hitler's 'MeinKampf' is translated into Arabic, available on the "brown" Arab market, what for?
What's the interest in "brown" Arab nations' inviting "white" KKK members to speak?
Do you know of any Muslim group that has joined the efforts of Christian/Jewish action to prevent the racist genocide by Arab Muslims in Sudan upon native black Muslims?
Has any Arab media issued an apology for inciting the bloody "intifada" [2000] via lying images, such as of Muhammad Al dura, which as we all know by now, was killed by Arabs themselves [who knows how many more]? or has anyone of them run the true version of stories?
Which Arab, Muslim nation is exempt from the crime of libel against Israel's struggle for survival with outrageous drama "accusations" & horrific twisted around definitions in the UN [reaching it's peak with their racist resolution in Durban - 2000, hypocritically calling it "against racism"]?
How many Arabs, Muslims, have declared openly that the 'Palestinian' Arab Muslim cult of using it's kids as human bombs and as human shields in their war against Israeli civilians, is totally immoral?
Not one Muslim group has come up against and declared that a collective boycott of an entire nation such as Denmark (2006, because they were upset with a few cartoonists that happened to be Danes) is racism.
While most Arab, most Muslims couldn't care less what happens with the [so called] "Palestinian" Arab Muslims, they do use them as pawns in their fascist war [physical, propaganda, economic & in the UN] against the non Arab, non Muslim "island" in their neighborhood, i.e. Israel.
While Arab, Muslims leaders chased out, in 1948, most of the [so called] "Palestinian" refugees, with bragging "promises" of "victory" & ethnic cleansing the Jews out of Israel, they put them in camps, never let Israel to improve their conditions, so to use them as pawns in their fascist war against the non Arab, non Muslim "island" in their neighborhood, i.e. Israel.
Most Arab Muslim media draws Israel so vile, as in the WWII type of Nazi cartoon drive [the other unfunny ironic part is, they pick the non-Zionist Jew image, hypocrisy, again, fascism, again].
Most Muslims wishwash the facsistic Muslims' torture and cold blooded murder of innocent people that just happened to be Jewish, like: Daniel Pearl, Nick Berg, Ilan Halimi.
Did you hear one mainstream Arab Muslim leader or groups denuncing the Islamic Hitler of Iran's calls for annihilation of an entire nation, calling for a new Holocaust while denying the previous one and his calls for death to: US & the UK? [PS, he just made a tour (May-2006) among "moderate" Muslim nations that only cheered him on. ]
Exactly How many Muslims or Muslim organizations [that are so worry about their image or of their 'prophet's] have protested against the masses of Muslims on the 'Cartoon -Jihad' rampage (2006), calling Europe a cancer and threatening a "9/11" on Europe?
Not one of the few courageous Muslims that speak out for real overall reform, for disliking westerners, for sympathy for Israel the victim, for about [all] Muslims regimes' crimes on their own people, have been shielded from any major Muslim organization (including such as CAIR - http://anti-cair-net.org), from the menace of death threats Fatwas by Muslim clerics.

[iceberg]

Originally Posted by Jon88

That was then (and wrong). It's 2008 and these people are still preaching that.

like i also said - the catholics did stop their ways and to date the muslems have not. the comparision only goes so far.

[Jon88]

Originally Posted by iceberg

like i also said - the catholics did stop their ways and to date the muslems have not. the comparision only goes so far.

Someone will inevitably bring up the priests and child molestation. I'll go ahead and kill that right now by saying that is never worse than a car bomb or a decapitation.