Improvements in Iraq

[Doomsday101]

This morning while watching CNN I saw an interview with Cal. Representative, Dem Jane Harman who recently returned from Iraq and when asked about the conditions in Iraq she said that there are vast improvements both militarily and politically she went on to say she had spoken to political leaders both from the Sunni and Shiite faction and both sides agree that improvement are taking place and have an optimistic outlook for Iraq.

When asked if the Bush plan then is working she said no the Iraqis are just stepping up and taking on the problems.

I guess Bush will never get any credit what so ever. At 1st the troops needed to come home because things were bad, then Iraq was in Civil War, then the war was lost and now things are showing real improvements and the troops need to come home.

This is no longer about right or wrong this is about Dems not acknowledging the progress of the Bush plan in Iraq and why should they the media and public sentiment is against Bush so there is no need to throw a bone his way.

[quincyyyyy]

What do you mean "Bush's plan"? Are you refering to the surge?

[big dog cowboy]

Originally Posted by Doomsday101

When asked if the Bush plan then is working she said no the Iraqis are just stepping up and taking on the problems.

I thought that was the plan.

[Jordan55]

We Are Making Progress in Iraq
By NECHIRVAN BARZANI
May 20, 2008; Page A21

While the media offers mostly images of violence, and many Americans have grown weary of the war in Iraq, I bring hopeful news to Washington this week as I meet with the administration and members of Congress.

Since 2003, we have built the Kurdistan Region as a model for democracy and a gateway for development for all of Iraq. We are willing partners in this transition toward an Iraqi government that is representative of all its people. Through our peshmerga forces, we provide some of the most effective units against al Qaeda and other terrorist groups. We Kurds are committed to a federal, democratic Iraq at peace within its borders and with its neighbors.

We are working with Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki and the Iraqi leadership in Baghdad on the difficult issues facing our country. Our relationship with Iraq's federal government has never been better. And progress is being made on an oil law, the status of disputed territories, the proper role for Iraq's neighbors to play, and on relations between the Kurdistan Regional Government (KRG) and Turkey.

First, the oil law. We will now start negotiations using a draft drawn up in February of 2007. We'll also establish a process to send the national oil law, the revenue sharing law, and the laws concerning the Iraqi National Oil Company and the Oil Ministry in Baghdad to parliament as one package – to be voted up or down.

New oil contracts will be approved based on agreed-upon guidelines. The oil exploration contracts the KRG has already signed won't present a problem, because they were negotiated based on the highest standards of transparency.

There is also progress in settling the status of Kirkuk and other disputed territories. Previous Iraqi regimes expelled Kurds, Turkmen and Christians from Kirkuk, and gerrymandered provincial borders to change its demography. Article 140 of the Iraqi Constitution establishes a legal process to remedy this injustice. We are encouraged that the United Nations Special Representative of the Secretary General is helping to develop a proposal regarding the implementation of Article 140.

As we resolve internal issues, we also understand the importance of a peaceful relationship with all our neighbors, based on mutual respect and noninterference in internal affairs.

To that end, we will continue reassuring our neighbors that a federal Iraq is not a threat. But we will also continue to encourage our neighbors to do what they can to stop terrorists from infiltrating Iraq.

We think it is imperative that Middle Eastern states send their diplomatic representatives to Iraq, and for these states to proactively prevent terrorists from slipping across their borders. Unprovoked and recurring bombardment of the Kurdistan Region by Turkey and Iran must stop.

There has also been a historic step forward in KRG-Turkish relations. On May 1, I represented my government in the first high-level, official bilateral meeting with Turkey. Held in Baghdad, the meeting was conducted in a cordial atmosphere, and both sides stressed similar views on a wide range of issues. We reiterated to our Turkish colleagues our commitment to good neighborly relations, which is underscored by the growing Turkish investment in the Kurdistan Region. Our talks also focused on the need for practical steps and continued dialogue on all outstanding issues, including the problem of the PKK.

We Kurds understand and share America's frustration with the pace of political progress in Iraq. We are doing all we can to create security, stability and prosperity. While progress has not come fast enough, Iraq remains a worthy cause.

As Americans debate the future of the U.S. role in Iraq, allow me to say that America's mission remains vital to the stability and security of our region. A precipitous withdrawal of U.S. forces could be calamitous. We welcome a U.S. presence in the Kurdistan Region as part of any redeployment of forces.

The Kurdish people of Iraq suffered under Saddam Hussein. And we fought and died alongside Americans to liberate our country. There is no ambiguity about the depth of gratitude that Kurds feel for America's sacrifices in Iraq. Americans who have been killed or wounded in Iraq are heroes to me and to all of Iraq's Kurds. We will never forget what you have done for us.

Mr. Barzani is prime minister of the Kurdistan Regional Government of Iraq.

[Doomsday101]

Originally Posted by big dog cowboy

I thought that was the plan.

It is. Under the Dem plan we would have left a long time ago and left a vacuum of power in that country. Iraq is better off today because we are willing to stay than under the yellow Dog Dem plan that would have turned tail

[iceberg]

Originally Posted by big dog cowboy

I thought that was the plan.

that's what i was going to say. get rid of the jerkwad, help them build their own government.

if they're doing this on their own, great. can we go now?

[burmafrd]

The armed forces are, sadly, way ahead of the rest of the government.
Its going to be the failure of the Iraq government that will doom the effort.
Yet its the way it is in the middle east. Graft, corruption, tribal loyalties, family loyalties above country or anything else.
I frankly do not think that most countries in the Middle East are capable of true democracy. As a matter of fact, I really doubt that any of them outside of Israel will be that way for another 100 years. Lebanon came close but looks to be falling back.

[Doomsday101]

Originally Posted by burmafrd

The armed forces are, sadly, way ahead of the rest of the government.
Its going to be the failure of the Iraq government that will doom the effort.
Yet its the way it is in the middle east. Graft, corruption, tribal loyalties, family loyalties above country or anything else.
I frankly do not think that most countries in the Middle East are capable of true democracy. As a matter of fact, I really doubt that any of them outside of Israel will be that way for another 100 years. Lebanon came close but looks to be falling back.

I somewhat disagree. I think they can achieve a form of democracy. I don't expect them to be like the US but then our form of democracy is different than that of other western powers.

[canters]

I have always respected Jane Harman. She is a Dem but is not a partisian as most. She is fair and can give credit to Bush when he deserves it.


As far as who gets credit for improvements in Iraq, I do not care. As long as we get one step closer to finishing the job before some ask us to just quit.

[Doomsday101]

Originally Posted by canters

I have always respected Jane Harman. She is a Dem but is not a partisian as most. She is fair and can give credit to Bush when he deserves it.


As far as who gets credit for improvements in Iraq, I do not care. As long as we get one step closer to finishing the job before some ask us to just quit.

Fact is she did not give any credit to him when asked. She said it was the Iraqi themselves yet that was what Bush has been trying to achieve by trying to keep order in the country instead of it falling into a massive civil war it allows time for political agreements within the country and it allows the Iraqi military to be rebuilt and trained.

I know most think this is something that happens quickly but just look at our own government and you will see agreements and compromises between different groups does not always happen quickly.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Originally Posted by canters

I have always respected Jane Harman. She is a Dem but is not a partisian as most. She is fair and can give credit to Bush when he deserves it.


As far as who gets credit for improvements in Iraq, I do not care. As long as we get one step closer to finishing the job before some ask us to just quit.

I don't think there is any question that Bush has gotten credit for any failures in the Middle East, real or contrived. He has gotten credit for a poor economy, poor education, poor medical, housing glut, you name it and everything that is wrong in the US has been laid at the step of George Bush.

I think it is fair to say that he should receive credit for these latest successes. This statement from Harman is either colored or ingnorant. Bush has stressed the importance of staying engaged in Iraq. Bush has pushed for local government to take charge but also for local government to receive the propoer training and support to be able to do this. This is Bush's plan and I don't believe that this can be argued. If the local Government is taking charge, it is only because they have been put in a position to do so by Bush and his plan. Like it or not, that is the truth of the matter IMO.

Our failure to stick with Afghanistan after our covert war was a mistake. We elected to fade back into the landscape after the defeat of the Soviet Union in Afghanistan. Now, there may have been reasons for this. Our methodes were not exactly clean, but, the fact that we did not stay engaged after that War is a direct cause of this War. It gave Bin Laden and all the rest plenty of amunition to spread insurgent messages reflecting the US very poorly. Bush made certain that this mistake was not repeated here in this War. To me, that is a very positive thing indeed. Anything can be spun but it is up to us, as citizens to see beyond this kind of thing and see what is the real story. At least, that's how I see it.

[iceberg]

this is why i have a hard time with those blinded by 1 issue. regardless of the outcome, they'll forever be against it.

[Maikeru-sama]

Originally Posted by Doomsday101

I somewhat disagree. I think they can achieve a form of democracy. I don't expect them to be like the US but then our form of democracy is different than that of other western powers.

I wouldn't hold my breath.

[DallasFanSince86]

Originally Posted by Doomsday101

When asked if the Bush plan then is working she said no the Iraqis are just stepping up and taking on the problems.

That was/is the plan. So wouldn't that mean she inadvertantly gave Bush credit?

Originally Posted by Doomsday101

I guess Bush will never get any credit what so ever.

Good luck with having some people come out and give Bush credit for good things. He will get all the credit for anything bad.

[Doomsday101]

Originally Posted by Maikeru-sama

I wouldn't hold my breath.

Please do. Democracy that we see in this country very well may not be what we see in Iraq however there are many different forms of democracy there is no one size fits all. I do think the people of Iraq will be able to control their own density and come up with a democratic system that fits them.