Pakistan: GIs on cross-border raids will be shot

[ConcordCowboy]

Pakistan: GIs on cross-border raids will be shot

Zardari says he doubts U.S. will attempt any more special-forces operations


ISLAMABAD, Pakistan - Pakistan's military has ordered its forces to open fire if U.S. troops launch another air or ground raid across the Afghan border, an army spokesman said Tuesday.

The orders, which come in response to a highly unusual Sept. 3 ground attack by U.S. commandos, are certain to heighten tensions between Washington and a key ally against terrorism. Although the ground attack was an exception, there have been repeated reports of U.S. drone aircraft striking militant targets, most recently on Sept. 12.

Pakistani officials warn that stepped-up cross-border raids will accomplish little while fueling violent religious extremism in nuclear-armed Pakistan. Some complain that the country is a scapegoat for the failure to stabilize Afghanistan.


Pakistan's civilian leaders, who have taken a hard line against Islamic militants since forcing Pervez Musharraf to resign as president last month, have insisted that Pakistan must resolve the dispute with Washington through diplomatic channels.

However, army spokesman Maj. Gen. Athar Abbas told The Associated Press that after U.S. helicopters ferried troops into a militant stronghold in the South Waziristan tribal region, the military told field commanders to prevent any similar raids.

"The orders are clear," Abbas said in an interview. "In case it happens again in this form, that there is a very significant detection, which is very definite, no ambiguity, across the border, on ground or in the air: open fire."

U.S. military commanders accuse Islamabad of doing too little to prevent the Taliban and other militant groups from recruiting, training and resupplying in Pakistan's wild tribal belt.

Pakistan acknowledges the presence of al-Qaida fugitives and its difficulties in preventing militants from seeping through the mountainous border into Afghanistan.


However, it insists it is doing what it can and paying a heavy price, pointing to its deployment of more then 100,000 troops in its increasingly restive northwest and a wave of suicide bombings across the country.

After talks Tuesday with British officials in London, Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari said he did not "think there will be any more" cross-border raids by the U.S. He declined to comment on the order to use lethal force against American troops.

Instead, he and British Prime Minister Gordon Brown issued a joint statement saying Afghanistan and Pakistan should lead the efforts to battle border militancy. The joint statement left out any mention of the United States.

The Pakistani army has said the country's territory would be defended at all cost but Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani has said Pakistan aimed to settle the issue with the United States diplomatically.

In talks with British Justice Secretary Jack Straw on Tuesday, Gilani called for an immediate halt to violations of Pakistan's territory, the prime minister's office said.

Pakistan's armed forces were fully capable of handling any situation by themselves, Gilani was quoted as telling Straw.

American officials have confirmed their forces carried out the Sept. 3 raid near the town of Angoor Ada but given few details of what happened.

Civilian deaths?

Abbas said that Pakistan's military had asked for an explanation but received only a "half-page" of "very vague" information that failed to identify the intended target.

Pakistani officials have said the raid killed about 15 people, and Abbas said they all appeared to be civilians.

"These were truck drivers, local traders and their families," he said.

How to reverse a surge in Taliban violence in Afghanistan has become a major issue in the U.S. presidential campaign and refocused attention on the porous border with Pakistan.

Pakistan's military has won American praise for a six-week offensive against militants in the Bajur tribal region that officials here say has killed 700 suspected insurgents and about 40 troops. Troops backed by warplanes killed eight more alleged militants Tuesday, officials said.

In the same timeframe, there has been a surge in missile strikes apparently carried out by unmanned U.S. drones. Such attacks killed at least two senior al-Qaida commanders earlier this year.

Abbas did not say when exactly the orders for Pakistani troops to open fire to prevent cross-border raids by U.S. troops were issued. He wouldn't discuss whether Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, who replaced Musharraf as army chief last year, personally took the decision or if the orders had been discussed with American officials.

The spokesman also played down suggestions that the instructions had been put into practice before dawn on Monday, when U.S. helicopters reportedly landed near Angoor Ada only to fly away after troops fired warning shots.

Abbas insisted no foreign troops had crossed the border and that "trigger-happy tribesmen" had fired the shots. Pakistani troops based nearby fired flares to see what was going on, he said.


The U.S. military in Afghanistan said none of its troops were involved.

In a rare public statement last week, Kayani said Pakistan's sovereignty would be defended "at all cost." Abbas said Pakistani officials had to consider public opinion, which is skeptical of American goals in the region and harbors sympathy for rebels fighting in the name of Islam.

"Please look at the public reaction to this kind of adventure or incursion," Abbas said. "The army is also an extension of the public and you can only satisfy the public when you match your words with your actions."

Meanwhile, Pakistani aircraft bombed militant strongholds in a northwestern region on Tuesday while U.S. drones prowled the sky over another militant sanctuary on the Afghan border, a military official and residents said.

Underground bunkers
Pakistani aircraft bombed three areas of Bajur as ground troops searched house-to-house for militants, a military spokesman said.

"They have constructed underground bunkers and along with foreign fighters are putting up stiff resistance. Troops are clearing each and every house in these areas," said military spokesman Major Murad Khan.

Khan had no information about casualties in Tuesday's fighting but the military has said 117 have been killed in Bajur over the past week.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26735196/

[JBond]

Good thing Obama wants to invade. I wonder if his planned invasion will be before or after he withdraws all out troops from Iraq?

[BrAinPaiNt]

Originally Posted by JBond

Good thing Obama wants to invade. I wonder if his planned invasion will be before or after he withdraws all out troops from Iraq?

Have you lost your mind. W has already approved, and they have carried out, raids in Pakistan.

I don't think either W or Obama is wrong in this matter.

We have paid millions upon millions to the ousted leader and the country of pakistan and they are basically doing little to nothing in regards to OBL. I really doubt they just don't know where he is.

Personally I think this current tough guy talk from Pakistan is just that, tough guy talk to help save face in their country so it does not appear that the US is pulling the strings.

[JBond]

Originally Posted by BrAinPaiNt

Have you lost your mind. W has already approved, and they have carried out, raids in Pakistan.

I don't think either W or Obama is wrong in this matter.

We have paid millions upon millions to the ousted leader and the country of pakistan and they are basically doing little to nothing in regards to OBL. I really doubt they just don't know where he is.

Personally I think this current tough guy talk from Pakistan is just that, tough guy talk to help save face in their country so it does not appear that the US is pulling the strings.

I agree. Find them and kill them no matter where they live. Obama's comments came at a very bad time. It help to lead to the ouster of the guy we already had paid off. Now we have to start over paying off some one else.

[Hostile]

Shoot back. Problem solved.

[BrAinPaiNt]

Originally Posted by JBond

I agree. Find them and kill them no matter where they live. Obama's comments came at a very bad time. It help to lead to the ouster of the guy we already had paid off. Now we have to start over paying off some one else.

I don't think it was a problem with Obama's timing...heck he was ahead of the curve. The problem was him saying it in public instead of behind the scenes. Either way what he said was not wrong.

[CanadianCowboysFan]

Originally Posted by Hostile

Shoot back. Problem solved.

another solution would be not to cross into Pakistan?

[BrAinPaiNt]

Originally Posted by CanadianCowboysFan

another solution would be not to cross into Pakistan?

Ummm in this case...NO.

This is not iraq.

This is going after the guys that actually did 9/11 without making some bogus canoodling around it claims like we did with Iraq.

Furthermore we have been paying millions upon millions to Pakistan to be an ally while they basically let OBL sit do what he wants.

Now with that said. We have to be precise with our intelligence and in our strikes. We can not go out and take out a bunch of civilians and then have Oliver North tell us there were no civilians only to look foolish after they get pictures of said "no" civilians dead.

[joseephuss]

Hello Pakistan. Please give us back all the fighter aircraft and other military equipment you have gotten from us in the last few years. And while you are at it shut the heck up and stay out of the way.

[Brandon]

Originally Posted by BrAinPaiNt

Ummm in this case...NO.

This is not iraq.

This is going after the guys that actually did 9/11 without making some bogus canoodling around it claims like we did with Iraq.

Furthermore we have been paying millions upon millions to Pakistan to be an ally while they basically let OBL sit do what he wants.

Now with that said. We have to be precise with our intelligence and in our strikes. We can not go out and take out a bunch of civilians and then have Oliver North tell us there were no civilians only to look foolish after they get pictures of said "no" civilians dead.

Bush did 9/11, get over yourself. We have no right to go into Pakistan, so they have the right to shoot us. Would you like Mexican troops to freely walk up the west coast to go into Canada? Would you like Cuban Troops to walk from Florida, down through Texas to get into Mexico? We don't own the world, not even close, this "terrorism" theory is laughable.

[CanadianCowboysFan]

Originally Posted by joseephuss

Hello Pakistan. Please give us back all the fighter aircraft and other military equipment you have gotten from us in the last few years. And while you are at it shut the heck up and stay out of the way.

yeah but do that, and then Pakistanis will want to immigrate to the US and be your taxi driver, do you want a terrorist driving your cab?

[hairic]

Originally Posted by joseephuss

Hello Pakistan. Please give us back all the fighter aircraft and other military equipment you have gotten from us in the last few years. And while you are at it shut the heck up and stay out of the way.

Ah, yes. Weaken them so they can't defend their nuclear resources. A dirty bomb somewhere in the US sounds nice.

[Yoshimitsu]

Peace on earth will never be obtained.

[ThaBigP]

Originally Posted by Brandon

Bush did 9/11, get over yourself. We have no right to go into Pakistan, so they have the right to shoot us. Would you like Mexican troops to freely walk up the west coast to go into Canada? Would you like Cuban Troops to walk from Florida, down through Texas to get into Mexico? We don't own the world, not even close, this "terrorism" theory is laughable.

Actually, folks, WE HAD PERMISSION!...sorta. But it was supposed to be hush hush due to the volatile nature of Pakistan right now. Their leaders could not be seen supporting incursions by the US, even if only 5 miles within the border. Somebody leaked it, and now the Pakistani leadership is in a bit of hot water. I'll bet we also gave them permission to be as publicly indignant as they wanted to be to pacify their population.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.p...w&pageId=75421

[Hostile]

Originally Posted by CanadianCowboysFan

another solution would be not to cross into Pakistan?

We're at war with Al Qaeda and the Taliban. They are the perpetrators of an attack on innocent civilians on our soil. Nothing is going to be acceptable as a reason to stop us from getting them.

If they are in Pakistan, there are two solutions. Deliver them to us or get the hell out of the way. If they deliver them to us, there's no need for the stupid threats. If they are in the way and choose to engage us, then make sure you're willing to accept the results. It is just that simple.