Issue: Taxes

[Viper]

I would like to delve into topics that really matter. I want to talk about the issues that do face America. I would like to find out what your views are, not Obama’s, not McCains…yours. I would like to hear the ideas we have without attacking another poster. So the first topic is Taxes. What are your views, how should we implement them?

I’m a flat tax guy. No excuses, no right offs, you pay a flat tax on your income for individuals. It would simplify our taxes. Eliminating the IRS or drastically cutting it back. It would be fair for every individual American. I believe it would cut cost, while bringing in more revenue to the government.

I have a different view that deals with companies. The better my company does, the better I do. The more a company creates jobs for Americans, the more they get a tax break. If a company is using the United States economy, by going overseas creating jobs in other countries yet dumping their products here. I feel those companies should bare a greater tax responsibility.

I do feel we as citizens are over taxed. We pay taxes for everything we do. I read once that there was something like 30 to 40 percent of the cost of a loaf of bread is taxes. I get taxed to make a phone call, to buy a cup of coffee, to watch TV. I believe it is time the government accounts for what we give them. We routinely make millionaires out of our politicians, yet we keep letting them dig deeper into our pockets. It’s time our government learns to live within their means.

[ScipioCowboy]

I am content with the current tax rates. The government should neither raise nor lower them.

I do have one novel idea, though: CUT SPENDING!

[sbark]

Started at 300,000, then awhile at 250,000, then spit out 200,000 and just the other day Biden, with infinite knowledge--threw out 150,000.00

Last tax bill Obama supported raised taxes on anyone with income over 42,000.....

41% of USA population pays zero, none, nada in fed taxes..........Hey maybe Obama will get that figure down to 10%.........by the time he is done flip flopping on taxes

[Heisenberg]

I'd prefer a national sales tax.

[ThaBigP]

I have to concur with Scipio on the "cut spending" bit, but this was about taxes in particular...and I may have to do a little 'splainin' about my ideas.

First, repeal the 16th Amendment (power to levy taxes against income), and replace it with a new (28th) Amendment granting Congress the power to levy a national retail sales tax. All payroll taxes likewise no longer levied, and the expense for running all the functions of government will be collected through this one tax vehicle (there's still customs duties and odd-ball stuff like that, but the bulk would come from this). My logic? We currently fund the government with dozens of various taxes with dizzying amounts of tax code...and the irony is all of that money is just dumped into the same bucket - the US Treasury. Even Social Security and Medicare taxes are dumped into the general fund and spent like a sailor's paycheck on a single night of shore leave. Our current maze of taxes is like that game Moustrap - the rediculously over-complex contraption that takes 15 minutes to run, and in the end just drops a bucket on a mouse. All of that complexity adds cost - cost that saps money out of the private sector.

Economists have estimated that around 20-25% of the cost of any good or service actually reflects that company's cost in complying with our current tangle of tax code. Trust me, I used to work in Payroll years ago. I know what our tax accountants made per year, and how many a medium to large size business must have on-staff to comply. It's VERY expensive. Add to that the cost of corporate taxes and employer-matching payroll taxes, which in the end must be passed on to the consumer for the company to remain in business...and you start to get the point.

Which brings me to another point of mine - no corporate taxes WHATSOEVER. None. Ziltch. Nada. No payroll taxes, corporate income taxes, regulatory fees, registration fees (there can still be regulation and registrations/licenses, but no more $50,000 for a piece of paper you hang on your wall saying you're "licensed" - it's just a sneaky way to levy a tax). This is due to a fundamental law of economics - all cost of production, including taxes, is passed on to the consumer. It has to be - a company does not get to operate like the government does. It cannot simply run in debt forever. Nor can it come to your home with a gun and a pair of handcuffs and demand you start writing it checks to cover its costs. So think about it - you pay payroll taxes. You pay income taxes. You cash your check and buy gas and groceries...you're also paying all of those companies' taxes as well. The reason it's set up that way is so you don't see the real cost of our government, how much they're really sticking you for. Those taxes are "hidden" from you, buried in the retail price of whatever product or service you purchase. Which is why I also oppose a VAT (value-added-tax) like they have in Europe. Think of VAT as a sales tax, only it's illegal for a retailer to disclose to you how much tax you're paying. It's just another way to avoid a pitchfork mob by hiding taxes.

Failing a retail sales tax, I'd opt for a flat tax. But in the end always remember that whatever tax you place on a company is paid for by the consumer. So I'd caution anybody to strongly consider doing away with corporate taxes alltogether. Rearranging cookies on a plate does not make more cookies. It just wastes energy. If you take anything away from my ramblings, it's that whatever tax system we would have, I would demand that all taxes be visible to the citizen. Burying and hiding taxes in the form of corporate taxes, regulatory "fees" that amount to an inflated price for a sticker or piece of paper, etc are all means of keeping you from knowing how much your government really costs you.

[jrumann59]

I am all for a national sales tax, more in line with the way PA does sales tax, only on "luxury items" food and basic clothing are not taxed, ie your box stores, luxury clothing would be your name brands like Nike, Hilfiger, pretty much anything found in dept stores. I would also make buying American made products tax free.

[Nors]

41% of USA population pays zero, none, nada in fed taxes.

That is what is hilarious about this tax cut garbage. Middle class voters make no mistake about it Obama deems you wealthy and is going to redistribute your wealth.....

Millionaires already paying taxes at 50 cents on the $. How fair is that? And you want to further socialize THAT?

Whats next - taking from working Americans to help out the non working Americans already a drain on the system?

This is sickening

[jrumann59]

Originally Posted by Nors

41% of USA population pays zero, none, nada in fed taxes.

That is what is hilarious about this tax cut garbage. Middle class voters make no mistake about it Obama deems you wealthy and is going to redistribute your wealth.....

Millionaires already paying taxes at 50 cents on the $. How fair is that? And you want to further socialize THAT?

Whats next - taking from working Americans to help out the non working Americans already a drain on the system?

This is sickening

You know why, there is no incentive to become part of the middle class, why would someone making minimum wage want to make more if the gov't will give them everything they need with no taxes, and why would they want to become part of the lifes blood of this country.

[ThaBigP]

Originally Posted by jrumann59

I am all for a national sales tax, more in line with the way PA does sales tax, only on "luxury items" food and basic clothing are not taxed, ie your box stores, luxury clothing would be your name brands like Nike, Hilfiger, pretty much anything found in dept stores. I would also make buying American made products tax free.

The "fair tax" proposal in Congress (if it could ever get any legs) calls for a tax credit at the beginning of each tax year to refund, before the fact, the tax a person (or family) would pay that year on those staples you just mentioned - making food, etc effectively tax free for personal consumption. You'd also have to be careful taxing only "luxury" items - those with the wherewithall to buy a luxury item could do so overseas in the country of their choosing to avoid taxes - it happened with Clinton's "luxury tax" on yachts, airplanes, exotic cars and the like. All it did was hurt domestic manufacturing that was subject to the tax. As for "name brand" clothing and such qualifying for the luxury tax, how long would it take for a company to game the system by switching brand names and logos to appear to be an "off brand" and so avoid the tax? You did mention tax-free US-made items. You have to consider that what that amounts to is a tariff on imports, which would not only violate various trade agreements we already have, but also cause those nations to retaliate. Snuffing out trade is not a good idea. But my idea was to cease levying taxes on corporations here anyway, which would reduce their cost and attract businesses - many of whom relocated overseas to avoid our double-taxation of corporate income, not to mention one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world.

Just keep this in mind, the more hoops you have in a tax system, the more opportunities for people to cut corners in very creative ways. It should be simple and visible at all levels in my opinion.

One more benefit of a sales tax - even illegal income would be subject to taxation, as even drug dealers need to buy things. Illegal aliens as well.