New Zealand Votes to Legalize Smacking Kids - Dallas Cowboys Forum

Angus · 08-21-2009

New Zealand Votes to Legalize Smacking Kids

Friday, August 21, 2009

WELLINGTON, New Zealand — New Zealanders voted overwhelmingly to overturn a law that prohibits parents from hitting children, according to the results of a nationwide referendum released Friday, but the government says the law is working and won't be changed.

Opponents of the 2007 law claim it is overly intrusive and could turn thousands of good parents into criminals.

They won the right to hold the referendum, which is not binding, by signing up 300,000 eligible voters in support of it. They also drew up the question.

But the ballot measure has drawn widespread criticism, with Prime Minister John Key and main opposition Labour leader Phil Goff refusing to vote. Both said the question was so skewed as to make the results meaningless.

In a postal vote that closed Friday, 87.6 percent of voters responded "No" to the question: "Should a smack as part of good parental correction be a criminal offense in New Zealand?"

Just 11.81 percent of voters said "Yes," according to the nation's electoral office. About 54 percent of registered voters cast a ballot. The final result will be declared on Tuesday.

"John Key cannot ignore this result. The attempt by politicians to dismiss the referendum as ambiguous and irrelevant has also been rebuked by the voters," Family First director Bob McCoskrie, who advocated for changing the law.

He said the government should amend the law to allow light smacking and set up a royal commission of inquiry into child abuse.

Key said he would take note of the referendum result but won't change a law "that is working." He would, however, take a proposal to the nation's Cabinet on Monday to reassure parents they will not be criminalized. He did not elaborate on whether the proposal would alter the law — or how its applied.

The law, which Parliament passed overwhelmingly, prohibits parents from using force to discipline their children but gives police the discretion not to prosecute complaints "where the offense is considered so inconsequential there is no public interest in proceeding with a prosecution." No prosecutions have succeeded under the new law.

Deborah Morris-Travers, a spokeswoman for the Yes-vote coalition, was "unsurprised" by the result.

"We always expected it would go in favor of the no-vote because of the way that the question was phrased — it was loaded and misleading ... suggesting that good parents are being criminalized when in fact they are not," she said.

Police statistics show only serious cases are pursued and parents who lightly smack their children are left alone, she said.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,...est=latestnews

sacase · 08-21-2009

A good *** whippin never hurt anyone. Man if I lived here I would probably be in jail as I do believe spanking has its place in child dicipline. I remember I had a class in high school talked about this. I think it was a psychology class. The phrase that stuck was "had enough to hurt, but not hard enough to leave a mark". I know when I was a kid I deserved and got more than a few spankings. My grandfather gave me a spanking only once, that is all it ever took. To this day I don't cross him. If he says my name a certain way....that's a wrap. I stop what I am doing immediately. He is 81 years old and still has mind power over me from that one spanking.

Rogah · 08-21-2009

To paraphrase Dennis Leary: "My dad used to beat the **** out of me and I can't wait to have kids so I can beat the **** out of them..!!"

CowboyWay · 08-21-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacase

A good *** whippin never hurt anyone. .

If a kid's got an *** whippin coming, he's got an *** whippin coming. Nothing wrong with it.

jrumann59 · 08-22-2009

I am still trying to figure out what year was it that touching your kids became a crime and stern talking was considered parenting.

**ABQCOWBOY** · 08-22-2009

Well, the law is a problem. Kids have little fear of discipline and they show it. It is a huge problem. You can't teach them the basic needs. Now, I know that some will say that if you give a child enough attention and love, that is all it should take but the reality is that all children are different and all children are motivated differently. Some will conform to rules and some will not. Those who will not, have no balance and check.

This is not an advocation of beating children by any means. That is clearly not the answer but, when you take away a parents right to discipline their children, you basically put them in a situation where they are subserviant to their children.

Another example of too much Government in day to day life IMO.

Bob Sacamano · 08-22-2009

I don't think kids should be hit

unless they're like Yeagermeister, then let the fists fly

TheRat · 08-22-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by ABQCOWBOY

Well, the law is a problem. Kids have little fear of discipline and they show it. It is a huge problem. You can't teach them the basic needs. Now, I know that some will say that if you give a child enough attention and love, that is all it should take but the reality is that all children are different and all children are motivated differently. Some will conform to rules and some will not. Those who will not, have no balance and check.

This is not an advocation of beating children by any means. That is clearly not the answer but, when you take away a parents right to discipline their children, you basically put them in a situation where they are subserviant to their children.

Another example of too much Government in day to day life IMO.

Do you have kids?

Kangaroo · 08-23-2009

I have whipped my kids and still do when it calls for it; I also take things away; talk and even put them in a corner it is not one solution but that is an option I do employ when i have to and need to and will continue with the practice as needed.

SuspectCorner · 08-23-2009

I was a 'smacked child' - and consider myself no worse for wear from the experiences. Now, my parents never busted me with a closed fist or anything like that. And it's unfortunate that there are some parents out there that do. But their loving intent was that I understood my actions had consequences and that this truth would cross my mind when I was confronted with a decision in the future.

I was no saint, and it didn't always sway my decisions - but the near-certainty of the punishment awaiting often put a damper in my outlaw revelries.

My partner is a non-spanker and I've been persuaded to follow that tack with our son, but some of the sass I get from that boy - I doubt would have even crossed my mind at his age.

But the years may have fogged my recollections a bit.

Hostile · 08-23-2009

The only time spanking a child is an issue in my opinion is when the spanking is emotional by the parent and there is a lingering anger afterward.

Let me give you some examples. My oldest child loved to rough house play with me. We had a great game where I would lie on the floor and she would run by trying to get just close enough to be out of reach. I would swat her on the butt. Many times she went flying and the laughter was hysterical.

One time she got in trouble and I gave her a swat on the butt. Nowhere near as hard as some of our rough housing games. She cried. Kids do understand when a parent's emotions are involved. She was small but she knew I was angry and that caused the tears.

I have never spanked my kids without afterward wanting to talk to them about it and when done talking about it I hug them. I want them to know that the love I have for them exceeds the anger of the moment.

On the other hand I had a rough childhood. I was beaten quite often by my Mom's boyfriend. Sometimes with tools or ropes. He was not correcting me. He was punishing me and the driving emotion was hate. My Mom knew nothing about these beatings until about 15 years ago when I finally told her. She feels guilty and I don't think she should. I was afraid of two things. That he would make the beatings worse or go after her. I was also afraid that she would kill him if she knew and go to jail. I could not have either option so I endured the beatings for 3 years.

I have seen parents over react when a child is bad and they jerk a child up by the hair or an arm. That isn't correction. That's a bully tactic. It doesn't do anything but put fear into a child and a sense of low worth. Trust me, I speak from experience there.

No matter what a child has done it doesn't warrant a beating. I do not consider a spanking the same as a beating. I never have. I never will. I know a mother who slapped her daughter when she found out the girl was pregnant. They don't need a slap, they need a hug to know they aren't trash. That kind of crap is never needed.

We've gone too far in the other direction by completely avoiding punishing a child. I know parents who will go after a teacher viciously for criticizing their child. I will not take my child's side of a story just because they are my child. That teacher or adult has a perspective. I will not condone my children being disrespectful to another adult nor will I condone their ill manners.

My kids know I love them dearly which is why they will accept and respect my punishment when I do it. I haven't had to spank either of them in many, many years. Nor do I really expect to ever again.

jrumann59 · 08-23-2009

Spanking I have no problem, slap on the wrist no problem, full on whippings I have a problem. My first step dad used to whip me and my sister with a leather belt while we laid face down on the bed. He would say before hand one of 2 things to me, "This is going to hurt me more than its is going to hurt you, or take it like a man and it won't be as bad." Needless to say after most them I couldn't sit for 8 hours. After one I couldn't walk because I squirmed and he got the back of my knees and back and after another I was blleding pretty bad from lash marks, hell he even broke my finger once with teh belt because I tried to use my hands to block the belt. Lets just say one day after my 13th birthday he tried the same thing he was 5'9" 165 and I was 5'7" 175 we had a difference of opinion about whippings then and his opinion was ultimately defeated even though I got a sealed juvy record out of it. I even told him in court, "Why are we here you should have taken it like a man."

theogt · 08-24-2009

If the guy is trying to whip a 13 year old boy, he has a problem. You're not going to teach a 13 year old not to do something by whipping them.

bbgun · 08-24-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by theogt

If the guy is trying to whip a 13 year old boy, he has a problem. You're not going to teach a 13 year old not to do something by whipping them.

You know what they say: spare the rod, spoil the Bob.

daschoo · 08-24-2009

spanking i have no problem at all with. i was spanked myself when i was a boy and it did me no harm. obviously beating a child is a different issue altogether