Dallas' starting front seven size vs. the rest of the NFL - Dallas Cowboys Forum

Yakuza Rich · 01-05-2005

I did a look up on how big the Cowboys starting front seven is (Wiley, Ellis, Carson, Glover, Singleton, Coakley, and Nguyen). Here’s what I found:

The average height of the Cowboys starting front seven is 73.42” (6’1 ½”) and the average weight is 263 pounds.

The starting front seven ranks 31st in height (Tampa Bay is the shortest team) and tied for 29th in weight.

The average starting front seven in the NFL (sans the Cowboys) is 74.79” tall (almost 6’3”) and weighs an average of 269.61 pounds.

The best 3-4 scheme defenses (Baltimore, Pittsburgh, San Diego, and New England) average height was the same as the NFL average height (74.79") The average weight of these team's front sevens was 272.25lbs.

The best 4-3 scheme defenses (Washington, NY Jets, Buffalo, and Philadelphia) average height was 74.46". The average weight of these team's front sevens was 271.25 lbs.

Below is the average height and weight of all of the NFL team's starting front sevens.

SAN FRANCISCO

74.28” 269 lbs

BALTIMORE

74.14” 272 lbs

CHICAGO

75.14” 270 lbs

CINCINNATI

74.71” 266 lbs

BUFFALO

74.57” 273 lbs

DENVER

74.86” 269 lbs

CLEVELAND

74.86” 274 lbs

TAMPA BAY

73.00” 255 lbs

ARIZONA

74.71” 266 lbs

SAN DIEGO

75.00” 266 lbs

KANSAS CITY

76.14” 270 lbs

INDIANAPOLIS

74.29” 255 lbs

DALLAS

73.42” 263 lbs

MIAMI

74.14” 268 lbs

PHILADELPHIA

73.86” 266 lbs

ATLANTA

74.57” 262 lbs

NEW YORK GIANTS

75.43” 269 lbs

JACKSONVILLE

75.71” 271 lbs

NEW YORK JETS

74.71” 273 lbs

DETROIT

74.71” 284 lbs

GREEN BAY

75.14” 272 lbs

CAROLINA

75.14” 273 lbs

NEW ENGLAND

75.57” 283 lbs

OAKLAND

75.57” 278 lbs

ST. LOUIS

74.00” 263 lbs

WASHINGTON

74.71” 273 lbs

NEW ORLEANS

74.14” 269 lbs

SEATTLE

74.71” 272 lbs

PITTSBURGH

74.43” 268 lbs (Larry Foote as starter instead of Kendrell Bell)

HOUSTON

74.71” 273 lbs

TENNESSEE

76.14” 264 lbs

MINNESOTA

75.29” 272 lbs

kidcrook · 01-05-2005

WOW. good post.

Yakuza Rich · 01-05-2005

The one thing that stood out to me is that the Bucs have a good defense from a statistical point, but one of the things they had a problem with all year was they would wear down easily. A team smaller than us having the same problem is interesting. Not to mention they have an elite pass rusher in Simeon Rice.....Dallas has Greg Ellis.

The Colts and Falcons are also smaller than us (albeit taller). The Colts defense blows, but they also have an elite pass rusher in Dwight Freeney and the Falcons have Rod Coleman and Patrick Kearney (although I think Coleman's presence makes Kearney a great pass rusher).

Perhaps conditioning is a problem because the Cowboys had a better average time of possession than all 3 of these teams.

Rich...........

**Sarge** · 01-05-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by kidcrook

WOW. good post.

Indeed - but was there ever really a question we a undersized on D?

Great post nonetheless.

Yakuza Rich · 01-05-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarge

Indeed - but was there ever really a question we a undersized on D?

Great post nonetheless.

Not that the front seven was undersized, but how much was it undersized and taking a look at other teams approximately the same size and how they stacked up on defense.

This was basically a look at our defense and things like our defense's problem with wearing down during the season and the 4th quarter of games. The defense has actually put up some good numbers over the years, but has still had a problem with coming through in the 4th quarter and it appears to me that Parcells is right about needing to get bigger up front.

Rich...........

Rack Bauer · 01-05-2005

Who were the teams with smaller front 7's (by weight) then the cowboys?

JeffInDC · 01-05-2005

It is starting to look like, that in today's NFL, you need to have a perfect mixture of size & speed & that many teams are still trying to find that balance. This could also be why so many teams are trying to incorporate the 3-4 into numerous defensive packages.

For Dallas, I still believe that the current scheme could be extremely successful if these upgrades occur:

1) a true NT (320+ lbs.) that is known to be a run-stopper (because not all 320+ guys are good run stoppers; see Warren, Gerard). Leo Carson gave good effort but he is woofully undersized and it showed in the final defensive rankings.

2) bigger LB's (6'2", 235+) that don't always need to be protected by the D-line. Since the current group is so small, they always have to be protected, which is the primary cause of the play the run first scheme Zimmer is having to run. When your LB's are bigger & stronger, your D-line can be a hell of alot more aggressive.

You put these 2 types of players on Dallas' current D (especially at NT & MLB), than all the other players can be speed players. This is one reason why I would love for Dallas to select either Derrick Johnson or Kevin Burnett in the first 2 rounds of the draft. Both are 6'3", 235+, yet run just as fast as the midgets that currently reside in those positions.

**MichaelWinicki** · 01-05-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yakuza Rich

I did a look up on how big the Cowboys starting front seven is (Wiley, Ellis, Carson, Glover, Singleton, Coakley, and Nguyen). Here’s what I found:

The average height of the Cowboys starting front seven is 73.42” (6’1 ½”) and the average weight is 263 pounds.

The starting front seven ranks 31st in height (Tampa Bay is the shortest team) and tied for 29th in weight.

The average starting front seven in the NFL (sans the Cowboys) is 74.79” tall (almost 6’3”) and weighs an average of 269.61 pounds.

The best 3-4 scheme defenses (Baltimore, Pittsburgh, San Diego, and New England) average height was the same as the NFL average height (74.79") The average weight of these team's front sevens was 272.25lbs.

The best 4-3 scheme defenses (Washington, NY Jets, Buffalo, and Philadelphia) average height was 74.46". The average weight of these team's front sevens was 271.25 lbs.
[View Full Quote]

Damn... that's a lot of info!

Yakuza Rich · 01-05-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rack

Who were the teams with smaller front 7's (by weight) then the cowboys?

Tampa Bay, Indianapolis, and Atlanta.

Tampa and Indy weighed in at an average of 255 lbs. Indy also utilizes Robert Mathis as a pass rusher quite a bit. He's only 233 lbs as a DE (yes, that's right) and thus they'd be the lightest front 7 in football by a long shot.

Atlanta weighs in at one pound less at 262. St Louis is tied with us at 263 lbs.

Essentially, there's 2 awful defenses (Indy and St. Louis) a team that is noted to wear down (Tampa Bay) and then Atlanta. All 3 teams have at least one player who is a legit 10+ sacks a season guy (Freeney, Little, Rice, and Coleman/Kearney)

Rich...................

wileedog · 01-05-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffInDC

It is starting to look like, that in today's NFL, you need to have a perfect mixture of size & speed & that many teams are still trying to find that balance. This could also be why so many teams are trying to incorporate the 3-4 into numerous defensive packages.

For Dallas, I still believe that the current scheme could be extremely successful if these upgrades occur:

1) a true NT (320+ lbs.) that is known to be a run-stopper (because not all 320+ guys are good run stoppers; see Warren, Gerard). Leo Carson gave good effort but he is woofully undersized and it showed in the final defensive rankings.

[View Full Quote]

Great post, as was the original YR.

With all the holes on this team, I still think the D front 7 should be the primary focus this offseason, almost to the exclusion of anything other than a Safety.

It will solve a LOT of problems.

Yakuza Rich · 01-05-2005

Getting standard sized linebackers in place of Nguyen, Coakley, and James would help improve the size in the front seven.

They have an average height of these guys is 71” (5’11”) and an average weight of 233 lbs. In my estimation, the average height of starting LB's in a 4-3 scheme is 6'2" and 245 lbs. In a 3-4 scheme it's about the same height, but I'd say the average weight is about 252.5 lbs.

However, they have Nguyen listed at 243 lbs. That’s supposedly more than James (240 lbs) and just 2 pounds less than Shanle and Fowler. I have a hard time believing that Nguyen weighs that much unless he has a 16 pound bowling ball put in his pads.

Then again, with the way he ran around the field this season, he probably did have a 16 pound bowling ball stuffed in his pads.

Rich………………………..

RCowboyFan · 01-05-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yakuza Rich

Getting standard sized linebackers in place of Nguyen, Coakley, and James would help improve the size in the front seven.

They have an average height of these guys is 71” (5’11”) and an average weight of 233 lbs. In my estimation, the average height of starting LB's in a 4-3 scheme is 6'2" and 245 lbs. In a 3-4 scheme it's about the same height, but I'd say the average weight is about 252.5 lbs.

However, they have Nguyen listed at 243 lbs. That’s supposedly more than James (240 lbs) and just 2 pounds less than Shanle and Fowler. I have a hard time believing that Nguyen weighs that much unless he has a 16 pound bowling ball put in his pads.

Then again, with the way he ran around the field this season, he probably did have a 16 pound bowling ball stuffed in his pads.

Rich………………………..

Having seen Dat live, he might be 243, but I think that doesn't help as much I guess.

TheHustler · 01-05-2005

forget about the front 7, the front four is where we are way too small. we need a 320+ lb run stuffer next to glover.

Yakuza Rich · 01-05-2005

Quote:

forget about the front 7, the front four is where we are way too small. we need a 320+ lb run stuffer next to glover.

I disagree. The front four weighs approximately 284.5 lbs. I'm not sure we need a run stuffer since we finished in the 10th in rushing yards allowed per game and 15th in rushing yards allowed per carry.

Remember, in the games that Scott was the starting SS over Dixon, the run defense allowed 43 rushing yards LESS per game and 1.65 less rushing yards per carry.

I really don't think run defense is a problem. The inability to sack the QB is.

Rich......................

Crown Royal · 01-05-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yakuza Rich

I disagree. The front four weighs approximately 284.5 lbs. I'm not sure we need a run stuffer since we finished in the 10th in rushing yards allowed per game and 15th in rushing yards allowed per carry.

Remember, in the games that Scott was the starting SS over Dixon, the run defense allowed 43 rushing yards LESS per game and 1.65 less rushing yards per carry.

I really don't think run defense is a problem. The inability to sack the QB is.

Rich......................

I disagree - currently each DL position is taught to play run first, because for the most part they are undersized. If we could get a large DT who's primary role would be to play the run, that would enable the rest of the line to focus a bit more on pass rushing.