Manning just isn't a Championship QB - Page 3 - Dallas Cowboys Forum

mr.jameswoods · 01-18-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by joseephuss

Troy doesn't have average stats. He has above average stats. He isn't in the upper echelon of Marino, Favre or Elway, but he is above average. Plus Troy's stats in the big playoff games and Superbowls is way above average.

I understand your point but realize there were far more QB's other than Elway, Favre and Marino that put more impressive regular season stats than Troy.

See for yourself

http://members.aol.com/bluekate/troybio_stats.htm

His playoff stats were impressive but his regular seasons stats are aguably average to just above average when you take his entire career into account

Doomsday101 · 01-18-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5 Super Bowls

Just because you try hard at learning the game and spend countless hours watching film, does not make you a leader. A leader is one that gets more out of less in pressure situations, and it certainly doesn't give him any heart.

But you have said nothing to show that Manning is not a leader or does not have heart. A QB can only do so much in a team sport, it just sounds like you expect Manning to win the game no matter how anyone else on the team plays. Fact is the Colts defense did not play well, a good defense does not give up 200 yards rushing in a game, so please don't tell me how great the Colts defense was it was bad very bad!

5 Super Bowls · 01-18-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr.jameswoods

I understand your point but realize there were far more QB's other than Elway, Favre and Marino that put more impressive regular season stats than Troy.

See for yourself

http://members.aol.com/bluekate/troybio_stats.htm

His playoff stats were impressive but his regular seasons stats are aguably average to just above average when you take his entire career into account

You just made my point right there thank you. Great players excell when they are under pressure.

If your regular season stats are inferior to your post season stats, that shows me that he put up better numbers against better teams with better players when it mattered.

Manning has not done that.

5 Super Bowls · 01-18-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doomsday101

But you have said nothing to show that Manning is not a leader or does not have heart. A QB can only do so much in a team sport, it just sounds like you expect Manning to win the game no matter how anyone else on the team plays. Fact is the Colts defense did not play well, a good defense does not give up 200 yards rushing in a game, so please don't tell me how great the Colts defense was it was bad very bad!

You must have missed this.

IMHO Manning has no heart and isn't a good leader. If he were a good leader he would not pout by shrugging his shoulders and wear his frustration on his sleave for all of his subordinate players to see. If he had any heart he would have tried to run the last play at the end of the 2nd quarter and take the lead, instead of throwing a near pick.

Doomsday101 · 01-18-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr.jameswoods

I understand your point but realize there were far more QB's other than Elway, Favre and Marino that put more impressive regular season stats than Troy.

See for yourself

http://members.aol.com/bluekate/troybio_stats.htm

His playoff stats were impressive but his regular seasons stats are aguably average to just above average when you take his entire career into account

Because Troy played in a system that did not ask the QB to throw the ball 40 or 50 times a game. Troy was always more interested in winning games than his own personal numbers and when you have a back like Emmitt well your going to see to it that he gets his carries. To me that was the great thing about that 90's Cowboys team players were interested in doing what ever to win and not hung up on personal goals. Team came 1st, goals came 2nd.

Rack Bauer · 01-18-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doomsday101

But you have said nothing to show that Manning is not a leader or does not have heart.

Exactly. I guess cuz Manning had like 6 dropped passes that means he's not a leader?

kevwun · 01-18-2005

Do you think Tom Brady somehow wills the Pats to have a great defense? Does his aura make the hooded one a great coach? If you put Peyton Manning on the Pats he'd have a couple of rings already. Tom Brady fell into a great situation and Manning didn't. How can a rational person hold that against Manning? This thread has made everyone on this board dumber.

kevwun · 01-18-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5 Super Bowls

You must have missed this.

IMHO Manning has no heart and isn't a good leader. If he were a good leader he would not pout by shrugging his shoulders and wear his frustration on his sleave for all of his subordinate players to see. If he had any heart he would have tried to run the last play at the end of the 2nd quarter and take the lead, instead of throwing a near pick.

You do realize that there was less than 5 seconds left in the half and if he was tackled, which would have happened, the Colts would have gotten nothing.

mr.jameswoods · 01-18-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5 Super Bowls

You just made my point right there thank you. Great players excell when they are under pressure.

If your regular season stats are inferior to your regular season stats, that shows me that he put up better numbers against better teams with better players when it mattered.

Manning has not done that.

That's a good point. However, your second point isn't a good one. Aikman played on a much more complete team than the Colts. So you can't really criticize Manning until he has the same type of team Troy had.

irvin88 · 01-18-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5 Super Bowls

I agree that Manning lacks something, but I also don't think you have to be a good QB to win.

Manning's problem is that he is billed as one of the greats. I just don't agree with that. A great player excels when the pressure is on.

It seems that Manning gets rattled easy in big games.

Some may also argue that it is the style that they play. The style puts too much pressure on one player the QB. I somewhat agree with that.

You have to at least wonder why Tennessee went undefeated the year after Manning left.

Because their great sophomore class became juniors and stepped up. That is total horsesh*t that Tee Martin got it done and Manning didn't. Tee Martin threw for 72 yards vs. Florida the after manning left.

irvin88 · 01-18-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevwun

Do you think Tom Brady somehow wills the Pats to have a great defense? Does his aura make the hooded one a great coach? If you put Peyton Manning on the Pats he'd have a couple of rings already. Tom Brady fell into a great situation and Manning didn't. How can a rational person hold that against Manning? This thread has made everyone on this board dumber.

GREAT POST !! Right on the money. Manning is hands down the best QB in the league. Period. If we could take either Manning or Brady, and Jerry took Brady I would drive to Dallas and do a Lee harvey on Jerry.

joseephuss · 01-18-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr.jameswoods

I understand your point but realize there were far more QB's other than Elway, Favre and Marino that put more impressive regular season stats than Troy.

See for yourself

http://members.aol.com/bluekate/troybio_stats.htm

His playoff stats were impressive but his regular seasons stats are aguably average to just above average when you take his entire career into account

He is in the top 20 all time in attempts, completions and yards and top 25 QB rating. Top 25 out of the many, many QBs to play the game. That to me is above average numbers. In only 12 seasons.

mr.jameswoods · 01-18-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doomsday101

Because Troy played in a system that did not ask the QB to throw the ball 40 or 50 times a game. Troy was always more interested in winning games than his own personal numbers and when you have a back like Emmitt well your going to see to it that he gets his carries. To me that was the great thing about that 90's Cowboys team players were interested in doing what ever to win and not hung up on personal goals. Team came 1st, goals came 2nd.

Then how did he have much better playoff stats? They didn't change their system for the playoffs all of a sudden.

Doomsday101 · 01-18-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by irvin88

GREAT POST !! Right on the money. Manning is hands down the best QB in the league. Period. If we could take either Manning or Brady, and Jerry took Brady I would drive to Dallas and do a Lee harvey on Jerry.

I would not go that far, I think both Manning and Brady are outstanding QB's in their own right and I'd be more than happy to have either one.

irvin88 · 01-18-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5 Super Bowls

You must have missed this.

IMHO Manning has no heart and isn't a good leader. If he were a good leader he would not pout by shrugging his shoulders and wear his frustration on his sleave for all of his subordinate players to see. If he had any heart he would have tried to run the last play at the end of the 2nd quarter and take the lead, instead of throwing a near pick.

You must have lost alot of serious $$$ on one of manning's games. I mean, to not think he's the best QB in the league is redidulous. You just keep enjoying Vinny every week. Remember Troy's body language when things weren't going well? Looked like a deer in the headlights. make him a bad leader??