How many games did our QB lose for us in 04? - Dallas Cowboys Forum

TonyS · 02-17-2005

With all of the talk at QB, I would like to know if anyone determined which games VT basically lost the game for us by being completely out of sync or giving up too many INTs or not protecting the football for us.

I know its subjective and football is a team sport, but which games do you think he lost for us?

On the flip side, which games did the D lose for us by giving up a bunch of points early or conceding critical points at the end of a game where a stop would've won it?

EveryoneElse · 02-17-2005

I think this is a good question, and is often lost in the deabate about QBs. You can look at VTs overall stats and say he was aweful and place the blame totally on him, but you also have to look at what he had to work with.

I thought Vt played better than expected up until Terry Glenn went down, and not having Julius Jones played a part in VTs poor play early on. Theres no doubt age played a role in Vinny's steady decline from about game 7 through game 16. The defense surely didn't help either.

Injuries are a part of the game and shouldn't be used as an excuse to justify any players short comings, but what if? What if JJ was healthy all year? , what if Terry Glenn didn't get hurt? , what if the defense didn't take a crap? Who knows what kind of year Vinny and the team could have had if everything would have gone smooth?

To answer your question, I think poor play by Vinny cost us 2 maybe three games at the most.

I think the Defense cost us games by not keeping games close.

I think most of the blame falls on BP and Jerry for sitting on their thumbs while other teams got better in FA. You get what you pay for......unless your the Redskins.

dbair1967 · 02-17-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyS

With all of the talk at QB, I would like to know if anyone determined which games VT basically lost the game for us by being completely out of sync or giving up too many INTs or not protecting the football for us.

I know its subjective and football is a team sport, but which games do you think he lost for us?

On the flip side, which games did the D lose for us by giving up a bunch of points early or conceding critical points at the end of a game where a stop would've won it?

for all the over criticism of VT, the 6-10 record wasnt because of what he did on the field...our defense was pathetic, as was our run game for the first half+ of the season...the QB play was better for us last yr than in 03, the defense was abysmal

David

Doomsday101 · 02-17-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by EveryoneElse

I think this is a good question, and is often lost in the deabate about QBs. You can look at VTs overall stats and say he was aweful and place the blame totally on him, but you also have to look at what he had to work with.

I thought Vt played better than expected up until Terry Glenn went down, and not having Julius Jones played a part in VTs poor play early on. Theres no doubt age played a role in Vinny's steady decline from about game 7 through game 16. The defense surely didn't help either.

Injuries are a part of the game and shouldn't be used as an excuse to justify any players short comings, but what if? What if JJ was healthy all year? , what if Terry Glenn didn't get hurt? , what if the defense didn't take a crap? Who knows what kind of year Vinny and the team could have had if everything would have gone smooth?

To answer your question, I think poor play by Vinny cost us 2 maybe three games at the most.

[View Full Quote]

I agree and even Parcells acknowledge that he over-estimated the defense heading into the 2004 season I don't think they envisioned the defense dropping off as far as they did. I agree that Vinny had some bad games but I think if our defense would have played half way decent this team would have made the playoffs this past season.

Portland Fanatic · 02-17-2005

I will go out on a limb and say the Pitt game....the fumble cost us IMO.

Rack Bauer · 02-17-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Portland Fanatic

I will go out on a limb and say the Pitt game....the fumble cost us IMO.

That wasn't the QBs fault. It was no one's fault. Just a freak incident. Anderson bumped into Vinny's arm. He didn't fumble from a hit by a steeler.

Doomsday101 · 02-17-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Portland Fanatic

I will go out on a limb and say the Pitt game....the fumble cost us IMO.

Even though it was Anderson who knocked the ball loose? I think if I were going to come down on Vinny for bad play then the Cinn, Balt and NO game would be the ones I felt he struggled in.

TonyS · 02-17-2005

I did some more in-depth analysis and looked at some stats from the games and this is what I came up with:

Week 1 - Minnesota 35 | Dallas 17 = Defense

Week 5 - NY Giants 26 | Dallas 10 = Both O & D were pitiful

Week 6 - Pittsburgh 24 | Dallas 20 = Defense didn't hold Pittsburgh in final minutes.

Week 7 - Green Bay 41 | Dallas 20 = Defense

Week 9 - Cincinatti 26 | Dallas 3 = VT - 3 ints & fumble.

Week 10 - Philadelphia 49 | Dallas 21 = Defense (Phi had drives of 59, 77, 68, 75, 88 & 84 yards) - VT had 2 ints that hurt, but our D was outclassed.

Week 11 - Baltimore 30 | Dallas 10 = VT - 2 ints in second half, no drive over 7 plays in first half.

Week 14 - New Orleans 27 | Dallas 13 = VT/O & D were pitiful late

Week 15 - Philadelphia 12 | Dallas 7 = VT - 2 ints

Week 17 - NY Giants 28 | Dallas 24 = Defense for making Eli look like a pro-bowler.

SUMMARY:

Looks like out of 10 losses there are 5 that you can say the defense lost for us, 3 that VT lost for us and 2 where it was the entire O and D that stunk up the joint.

TheHustler · 02-17-2005

Wow. That's really depressing.

Portland Fanatic · 02-17-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rack

That wasn't the QBs fault. It was no one's fault. Just a freak incident. Anderson bumped into Vinny's arm. He didn't fumble from a hit by a steeler.

Rack..this is not time for facts...I need to blame someone.:p

k19 · 02-17-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Portland Fanatic

Rack..this is not time for facts...I need to blame someone.:p

Blame Vinny, he's leaving anyways

statistically you'd have to say he played a big part in the losses to Cinci, Balt, and NO when his QB ratings were a dismal 41.3, 18.9, and 42.6 repectively

Rack Bauer · 02-17-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Portland Fanatic

Rack..this is not time for facts...I need to blame someone.:p

Blame it on the little blue men.

joseephuss · 02-17-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rack

That wasn't the QBs fault. It was no one's fault. Just a freak incident. Anderson bumped into Vinny's arm. He didn't fumble from a hit by a steeler.

I still blame Parcells for the play called. They run it, it runs down the clock or Pittsburgh has to burn a time out, then they punt burning more clock and Pitt has to drive the length of the field. That are playing the odds. It was 3rd and long. Didn't like it then and hated the execution.

cowheel · 02-17-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyS

With all of the talk at QB, I would like to know if anyone determined which games VT basically lost the game for us by being completely out of sync or giving up too many INTs or not protecting the football for us.

I know its subjective and football is a team sport, but which games do you think he lost for us?

On the flip side, which games did the D lose for us by giving up a bunch of points early or conceding critical points at the end of a game where a stop would've won it?

I'd say he had a hand in 10 of the losses.

A huge hand in around 5.

And an even bigger hand in TRYING to lose games such as the Cleveland Game and the Seattle game.

But those teams did a better job of it than even Vinny - as hard as that may seem...

Nors · 02-17-2005

They only won 6 and that does not cut it!