newman for howard, straight up. - Page 2 - Dallas Cowboys Forum

Skip · 03-11-2005

NO, is it not CB we have been trying to replace for how many years? Without much success I may add.

Besides I still have high hopes for Newman.

I know we need DL guys too, but not as bad as CB's.

Avery · 03-11-2005

So we fill a hole at DE and create one at CB.

Pass.

**MichaelWinicki** · 03-11-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoysAHitta

would you do a newman for howard trade? the saints are hard up for a good cb, and would probably jump all over newman. plus the draft is thick in good cb's (rolle, rogers, pac man, marlin jackson, corey webster and a few more).. but not pass rushing de's. newman seems easily replaced, some even labeled him a bust considering he was the #5 overall pick a few years ago. but a pass rushing de has been missing for years upon years.

i would do this trade and not think twice. we could easily fill newmans shoes with a 2nd round pick this year and be just fine in my opinion.

just something to think about.

If we did that we would take a big cap hit this year... and I like Newman.

**MichaelWinicki** · 03-11-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamJT13

No thanks. I don't see Howard (6-3, 275) fitting well in a 3-4. And even if we stuck with the 4-3 for however many years Howard would be around, it would put us in a big salary cap crunch this season. Newman's cap hit would go up by $5,452,979 if we traded him, and we'd still have to pay Howard big bucks, too.

Adam has spoken... His response makes perfect sense. I am going to close this thread due to its irrelevant subject.

SuperSafety_31 · 03-11-2005

It is way to soon to trade Newman. Repeat....It is WAY to soon to trade Newman. For a corner he had a good rookie year and he slumped in his 2nd year. Does this mean you would want to trade Julius Jones if his 2nd year is down? And how bad was he this year really? He played on a bad defense in a league where the WR's are allowed to wear skirts and DB's just have to deal.

In his rookie year he had 66 tackles and 17 pass def. In his 2nd year he had 64 tackles (not much of a drop off) and 11 pass def. (decline of 6). Now the most important stat....the interception....Rookie year = 4 and 2nd year = 4 They are the same. Mind you Newman didn't play at a probowl level but he put up the same numbers as his rookie year. For a young corner (in terms of years played of course) at least he is consistant and if his rookie year the Cowboys defense was #1 in the league and in his 2nd year the defense sucked...can you really say that Newman is that bad or that easy to replace when he put up the same numbers?

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/396171

Go look at Chris McAlister's INT's... 5 his rookie 4 in his 2nd... followed by three years with 1 and one year with 3.

Go look at Champ Bailey's INT's... 5 in his first two seasons and no better than 3 so far the rest of his career.

Go look at Ty Law's INT's... only 3 in his first two seasons and then he had two really great years with 9 and 6. But other than that he is around the same average of 3-4 int's per year.

Mike 1967 · 03-11-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamJT13

No thanks. I don't see Howard (6-3, 275) fitting well in a 3-4. And even if we stuck with the 4-3 for however many years Howard would be around, it would put us in a big salary cap crunch this season. Newman's cap hit would go up by $5,452,979 if we traded him, and we'd still have to pay Howard big bucks, too.

Darn...you always have to bring money into it :- )

Champsheart · 03-11-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoysAHitta

would you do a newman for howard trade? the saints are hard up for a good cb, and would probably jump all over newman. plus the draft is thick in good cb's (rolle, rogers, pac man, marlin jackson, corey webster and a few more).. but not pass rushing de's. newman seems easily replaced, some even labeled him a bust considering he was the #5 overall pick a few years ago. but a pass rushing de has been missing for years upon years.

i would do this trade and not think twice. we could easily fill newmans shoes with a 2nd round pick this year and be just fine in my opinion.

just something to think about.

I did not have to think long.

Simply, No I would not do it!

jem88 · 03-11-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by conner01

.i keep reading how average ellis is and how great howard is.well inthe last 4 yrs ellis has more sacks than howard.

I love how you conveniently use the last 4 years rather than say the last 5, which would then mean including Howard's rookie season when he had 11 sacks. Howard has twice broken the 10-sack barrier, something Ellis has never done. That being said, I think Ellis is probably a more complete end. Together, I think they'd make a great set of bookends. I wouldn't trade Newman for Howard but I'd definately give up our 2nd for him.

**jobberone** · 03-11-2005

No. I'd roll the dice on Spears or Cody hoping one will be there draft day and one will pan out. I wouldn't give up Newman. He should be a probowler with the right crew around him.

I think you'd be solving one problem at the expense of creating another.

Cowboys Dad · 03-11-2005

To even use the word slump in relation to TNew, I suggest you learn some things about evaluating a Corner before you open your yaps and end the speculation in regards to your football acumen! I posted at length about this last night. I will do so again to ease my weary soul, as well as shed a little truth on this matter.

First of all do any of you yahoos know why Tnew was drafted as the fifth overall pick in the draft? Well for those who think you do I will "splain you sumpin". He was drafted as the fifth overall pick because he was physically dominant of WR and had the ability to physically take recievers out of their routes before they got in them. That was his game and the logic is that with the new rules (which teams were not aware at the time that they would begin to be enforced, however that has made him even more valuable) he is the perfect fit beside RW in the Cowboys secondary.

The logic that some of you use is completely irrelevant to the situation. The Cowboys took a kid because he had certain skills. We all thought that they would use him and maximize his strengths, instead an inept Coodinator put Newman in a perfect situation to fail. I blame the Dolphins in a roundabout way, but more importantly I blame Zimmers Cowardice. Both Tnew and RW have been victims of this moron and the cheese fell off Zimmers cracker (not that it was ever really on there to begin with) during the Thanksgiving Day game VS Miami the year before last. The cowboys have been built to attack the line of scrimmage from the DBS to the LBs to the Dline (which have for a while needed to be upgraded) look at the players and if you have the common sense of a gnat you realize that when these players were brought in none of them were guys that had excelled in zone, or soft mamby pamby defenses. They were for the most part HKs (Terminator fans will get that reference). Zimmer has neutered them and the fans start spewing crap about the ability of a player like Newman.

You all disgust me quite frankly. Go back and review the footage. First Zimmer starts playing the mamby pamby loose cover two with Tnew and RW fifteen yards off the line of scrimmage. Because their skill set is not built to play in this mold they struggled and sometimes mightly in this scheme. Parcells, The media and football novices like you guys bashed slammed and cursed them. Yet I refer you to the end of the season. By that time both Tnew (who is the basis of this post) and RW (who I would be remiss if I didnt bring in on this point) were playing at an above average level. Thats a testiment to their quality as players and as men. They eat all of this crap, they know why they are struggling, but they never cry or moan or ask what about this or that. They simply worked hard and became more adapt at what they were asked to do. Heck by the end of the season Tnew was once again a black hole! Dont throw in there cause youll be lucky to get an incomplete.

Please refrain from further embarassing yourselves and irritating me by saying that Tnew slumped or has been a dissapointment, because he hasnt. I think some of you are chicken littles. I thought that was a term the mods used to be disrespectful when I first started coming to this site (sorry mods I realized my mistake, I am not being critical of you) however now I realize that some of you are either paranoid schitzophranics or you do far to many recreational drugs for your own good. Learn the responsibilities of a player, learn a players skill set before you call him a dissapointment. And For crying out loud, NEVER call Tnew one, because hes done nothing but be a professional and doesnt deserve some cracked up freak with the football acumen of a gnat trying to analyze what happened to poor Tnew.

All of you negative crackheads will be in here by week five making threads and taking up space just to say how glad you are that the Cowboys didnt take your dumbheaded advice to trade Tnew when they can get Howard without dealing Newman. I have a written list of all of you and I dont want to see one word about how good Newman RW and Henry are because you have disrespected them and yourselves to a degree that you can bet I will be there letting you know that you have no right to gloat about their success due to your constant gripping and complaining through last year and this offseason. You have lost your gloating privleges.

THREE FOURTHS OF THE BEST SECONDARY IN THE GAME ARE IN PLACE!

Now give me and yourselves a break from this speculative garbage that is baseless!

Mike 1967 · 03-11-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cowboys Dad

To even use the word slump in relation to TNew, I suggest you learn some things about evaluating a Corner before you open your yaps and end the speculation in regards to your football acumen! I posted at length about this last night. I will do so again to ease my weary soul, as well as shed a little truth on this matter.

First of all do any of you yahoos know why Tnew was drafted as the fifth overall pick in the draft? Well for those who think you do I will "splain you sumpin". He was drafted as the fifth overall pick because he was physically dominant of WR and had the ability to physically take recievers out of their routes before they got in them. That was his game and the logic is that with the new rules (which teams were not aware at the time that they would begin to be enforced, however that has made him even more valuable) he is the perfect fit beside RW in the Cowboys secondary.

[View Full Quote] The logic that some of you use is completely irrelevant to the situation. The Cowboys took a kid because he had certain skills. We all thought that they would use him and maximize his strengths, instead an inept Coodinator put Newman in a perfect situation to fail. I blame the Dolphins in a roundabout way, but more importantly I blame Zimmers Cowardice. Both Tnew and RW have been victims of this moron and the cheese fell off Zimmers cracker (not that it was ever really on there to begin with) during the Thanksgiving Day game VS Miami the year before last. The cowboys have been built to attack the line of scrimmage from the DBS to the LBs to the Dline (which have for a while needed to be upgraded) look at the players and if you have the common sense of a gnat you realize that when these players were brought in none of them were guys that had excelled in zone, or soft mamby pamby defenses. They were for the most part HKs (Terminator fans will get that reference). Zimmer has neutered them and the fans start spewing crap about the ability of a player like Newman.

You all disgust me quite frankly. Go back and review the footage. First Zimmer starts playing the mamby pamby loose cover two with Tnew and RW fifteen yards off the line of scrimmage. Because their skill set is not built to play in this mold they struggled and sometimes mightly in this scheme. Parcells, The media and football novices like you guys bashed slammed and cursed them. Yet I refer you to the end of the season. By that time both Tnew (who is the basis of this post) and RW (who I would be remiss if I didnt bring in on this point) were playing at an above average level. Thats a testiment to their quality as players and as men. They eat all of this crap, they know why they are struggling, but they never cry or moan or ask what about this or that. They simply worked hard and became more adapt at what they were asked to do. Heck by the end of the season Tnew was once again a black hole! Dont throw in there cause youll be lucky to get an incomplete.

Please refrain from further embarassing yourselves and irritating me by saying that Tnew slumped or has been a dissapointment, because he hasnt. I think some of you are chicken littles. I thought that was a term the mods used to be disrespectful when I first started coming to this site (sorry mods I realized my mistake, I am not being critical of you) however now I realize that some of you are either paranoid schitzophranics or you do far to many recreational drugs for your own good. Learn the responsibilities of a player, learn a players skill set before you call him a dissapointment. And For crying out loud, NEVER call Tnew one, because hes done nothing but be a professional and doesnt deserve some cracked up freak with the football acumen of a gnat trying to analyze what happened to poor Tnew.

All of you negative crackheads will be in here by week five making threads and taking up space just to say how glad you are that the Cowboys didnt take your dumbheaded advice to trade Tnew when they can get Howard without dealing Newman. I have a written list of all of you and I dont want to see one word about how good Newman RW and Henry are because you have disrespected them and yourselves to a degree that you can bet I will be there letting you know that you have no right to gloat about their success due to your constant gripping and complaining through last year and this offseason. You have lost your gloating privleges.

THREE FOURTHS OF THE BEST SECONDARY IN THE GAME ARE IN PLACE!

Now give me and yourselves a break from this speculative garbage that is baseless!

Are you related to Art ?

Cowboys Dad · 03-11-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike 1967

Are you related to Art ?

Art who?

Mike 1967 · 03-11-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cowboys Dad

Art who?

He is a long standing poster at Extremeskins.

He was the most egotistical poster I had ever come across....until today.

Unless you are simply trying to stir up some debate with some tongue in cheek pose.

**MichaelWinicki** · 03-11-2005

I'm disgusted now too!

Or am I disgusting?

Hmm.

Cowboys Dad · 03-11-2005

I am stating a fact that if I took a poll here seventy percent of the posters would applaud me telling guys like you, badattitude, champsheart, and others to stop being weenies and learn something about the game before you call people like TNEW a bust, or dissapointment.