Cowboys frontrunner for Darren Howard trade, currently negotiating new contract - Page 3 - Dallas Cowboys Forum

InmanRoshi · 03-11-2005

If it is the 20th pick, the 2004 draft day trade will officially be complete...

Dallas gets Darren Howard, Julius Jones (43rd pick), and Sean Ryan (144th pick) in exchange for JP Losman (22nd pick)

Buffalo paid a pretty hefty price for that pick.

JohnsKey19 · 03-11-2005

With a potential front 4 of Ellis/Ferg/Glover/Howard, there's no need to go to a 3-4. Parcells prefers the 3-4 but when you can throw out an impressive 4 man line like that, you stick with it.

All we'd need is a LB with the #11 pick. With a S in the 2nd round, our D is set - and on paper, rather impressive.

LoneStar22 · 03-11-2005

I like the #20 pick, that's Channing Crowder or Shaun Cody, Dan Cody, Dave Pollack, maybe even Shawne Merriman or Troy Williamson.

Dough Boy · 03-11-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hostile

He is more of a 3-4 DE than Glover would be if we truly are switching. I think we're sticking to a 4-3 base scheme myself.

I don't think you pay Howard that kind of money to be a 3-4 DE. For that kind of Dough, Boy he better get you 12 - 15 sacks per year. $17 million up front is nothing to sneeze at.

If for no other reason than this, we need a scouting department. If we had enough scouting talent, we could move up in the draft and take the best DE available. I'm willing to bet, whomever we draft we not cost us $17 million up front. I'm no fan of moving up in the draft, but I would rather package our 2 #1's and move into the top 5 and take the best DE available.

I for one hope this is either false or we lose out of the bidding war. Those two number ones and additional cap space will come in handy. Besides the fact that Glover and Ferguson will make a nice one-two tackle tandem up the middle. With Ellis on the other side, I think a rookie DE on the right side will be able to get plenty of pressure on the QB. JMO

ghst187 · 03-11-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by InmanRoshi

That's because Runningbacks are not hard to find. Notice how difficult the defensive end position is to fill compared to the runningback position. How many defensive ends have we drafted with high draft picks trying to fill Charles Haley's shoes? Yet we seem to have found a solid replacement for Emmitt on our first swing.

The signing bonus is staggering, but he's probably a notch above Grant Wistrom (who got a $16 million bonus), and a level below Jevon Kearse ($20 million bonus). So that probably is his market value, as hard as it is to believe.

Honestly, I'd take Howard over Kearse any day of the week and esp on Sundays.

I'll happily give up our #20 for him even at the risk of salary cap pergatory.
We can't draft anyone there that will be as good as him. And think of it this way, we chose to go with Julius over Kevin Jones last year and we get a 10 sack per year (probably more if he plays with Fergi, Glover, and Ellis) guy for free.

InmanRoshi · 03-11-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dough Boy

If for no other reason than this, we need a scouting department. If we had enough scouting talent, we could move up in the draft and take the best DE available. I'm willing to bet, whomever we draft we not cost us $17 million up front. I'm no fan of moving up in the draft, but I would rather package our 2 #1's and move into the top 5 and take the best DE available

The 1 defensive end in this draft could easily be there at 11 (Erasmus James), because there isn't a phenominal standout pass rusher in this year's draft. There's no Julius Peppers this year.

You got Erasmus James, who has really only dominated for half a season in his entire collegiate career, and Merriman ... who is really a long term project ... and that's probably all you're looking at for pass rushers at #11.

Champsheart · 03-11-2005

OK, now I am getting a little nervous.

I do want Howard! He would look good on our D-Line.

BUT....

No way do I give up a 1st or Glover.

Glover is one of our best players, and if we got Howard we would be much better suited to run a 4-3 and keep Glover.

Howard as a DE in the 3-4.
That just makes no sense to me. You do not give up that kind of $, and draft picks for a 3-4 DE.

IMO if we get Howard we must keep Glover and go 4-3.

I also would be very disappointed to give up a 1st round draft pick for Howard. He is good, but not that good.
We should not be giving up a 1st and all that $$$$ for a 28 year old DE, who is very good, but not elite. I do not see the value there.

I have no problem giving up our 2nd rounder, and a couple late rounders if needed.

Dough Boy · 03-11-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by InmanRoshi

You don't have to package our two #1's to get the #1 defensive end in this draft, because the #1 defensive end in this draft could easily be there at (Erasmus James), because there isn't a phenominal standout pass rusher in this year's draft. There's no Julius Peppers this year.

That's my point big guy. Why would we give up draft picks to get Howard who is no Julius Peppers. He is on average a 8 sack per year guy. We need a John Abraham or Simon Rice on the back side, not Howard.

Howard + $17 Million SB + 1st round draft pick = Desperation.

I am convinced that if you add Erasmus James or any player of similar thread to a front line that consist of Ellis, Glover and Ferguson - that player has a better than average chance of knotching 10 sacks.

Rockytop6 · 03-11-2005

I can't believe that JJ/BP would consider a guy who has missed eleven games the last two years, which is one third of the games, and give him a 17 Mil signing bonus. This draft is deep in DE and you could probably get two for what Howard would cost.

Why is JJ only interested in signing players who are either old or injured? Surely JJ will not go for this deal. One year we play all rookies and one year we play all old guys.
One year we won't give a sack of potatoes for a signing bonus and then one year we give the bank. JJ waffles from one extreme to the other. I wish he would find a middle ground.

InmanRoshi · 03-11-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dough Boy

I am convinced that if you add Erasmus James or any player of similar thread to a front line that consist of Ellis, Glover and Ferguson - that player has a better than average chance of knotching 10 sacks.

Well, I'm not convinced of that. Certainly not for the next couple of years. Erasmus James has had entirely one half of a great college season in his entire career, and had to sit out an entire year with a neck injury. Shawne Merriman is a tweener, raw project who projects to be more of a Levar Arrington linebacker than a true hand on the ground defensive end who might need 2 years to develop. And these are the top prospects, mind you.

Eskimo · 03-11-2005

Howard is injured too often and has never been an elite pass rusher. I don't mind giving up the 2nd round pick but I do mind the $17M SB for such an underwhelming talent who is no spring chicken.

Mike 1967 · 03-11-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockytop6

I can't believe that JJ/BP would consider a guy who has missed eleven games the last two years, which is one third of the games, and give him a 17 Mil signing bonus. This draft is deep in DE and you could probably get two for what Howard would cost.

Why is JJ only interested in signing players who are either old or injured? Surely JJ will not go for this deal. One year we play all rookies and one year we play all old guys.
One year we won't give a sack of potatoes for a signing bonus and then one year we give the bank. JJ waffles from one extreme to the other. I wish he would find a middle ground.

Wow...I did not realize he had missed that many games. That is troubling.

LoneStar22 · 03-11-2005

Marcus Spears or Earamus James would be a far better pick up than an injury prone Howard......and the list goes on, the draft has healthy players like Derrick Johnson at #11.

TRIPLETS · 03-11-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dough Boy

That's my point big guy. Why would we give up draft picks to get Howard who is no Julius Peppers. He is on average a 8 sack per year guy. We need a John Abraham or Simon Rice on the back side, not Howard.

Howard + $17 Million SB + 1st round draft pick = Desperation.

I am convinced that if you add Erasmus James or any player of similar thread to a front line that consist of Ellis, Glover and Ferguson - that player has a better than average chance of knotching 10 sacks.

xactly, they can keep him we'll draft someone just as effective at #20...hopefully

Champsheart · 03-11-2005

Just out of curiosity does anyone know who this writer is?

Jeff Duncan
The Times-Picayune

Never heard of him or the Times-Picayune.