Kirwan on 3-4, Draft and Dallas - Dallas Cowboys Forum

Nors · 03-16-2005

Teams using 3-4 might struggle to fill needs

By Pat Kirwan
NFL.com Senior Analyst

(March 15, 2005) -- The popular opinion a month before the NFL draft is that there is no clear-cut No. 1 prospect worthy of the spot.

Time will tell if that is true. With two quarterbacks, an excellent wide receiver, three premier running backs and maybe even a top corner, a top candidate will emerge.

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If I were involved with the 49ers and considering trading out of the top spot -- which, by the way, every team that has ever held the top spot has considered doing somewhere along in the process -- I also would start negotiations with a number of the top prospects and let them know there is no way my team enters the draft without my pick signed. The pressure might appear to be on the club because there is no Eli Manning or Michael Vick in this draft, but it is also on the players. If one of them wants to jump over the other athletes and become the top pick in the NFL, he will step up and make a deal.

So the logjam at the top can be sorted out with some early negotiations. But there is another log jam brewing in this draft, and it's worth looking at as the free-agent market starts to slow down.

The top three teams in this draft -- San Francisco, Miami and Cleveland, as well as Dallas at No. 11 -- all are considering a switch to the 3-4 defense. That means they all are looking for the same type of players for their front seven. The Chargers (No. 12) and the Texans (No. 13) also use a 3-4 and are looking to bolster their defenses. Six of the top 13 teams drafting have 3-4 defense on their minds, but not all of them are going to be able to satisfy their need for defensive talent.

Big, two-gap defensive linemen; big, strong inside linebackers who can play over guards; and outside linebackers who can rush the passer from a two-point stance are out there in this draft, but the supply of quality players is far from a bottomless pit. Compounding the restrictions on that particular talent pool is there are few free agents available who have played in a 3-4 defense. Teams starting from scratch have got to secure enough talent in the draft or the experiment is doomed to failure.

As Bill Parcells said to me two weeks ago when we discussed the 3-4 and 4-3 packages, "One of the two packages has to be the foundation, and it's not wise to get into one if you don't have the personnel to do it."

Linebacker Matt Stewart has gone from one 3-4 defense in Atlanta to another in Cleveland.

Romeo Crennel and Nick Saban might both be thought of as Bill Belichick disciples, but never forget that Belichick comes from the Parcells school of defense. In the end, all of these teams are looking for the same type of players. Will there be enough for the 49ers, Dolphins, Browns and Cowboys to switch? Will there be enough for the Texans and Chargers to improve?

Let's take a look at the teams at the top of this draft with 3-4 aspirations and see if they have the critical nose tackle; the big, two-gap defensive ends; the inside linebacker to meet force with force when the uncovered guard comes out at him; and, of course, the outside linebacker who can have the impact on the pass rush like Lawrence Taylor did back in Parcells' glory days with the Giants.

The secondary concerns remain the same no matter which front the team plays, so the construction concerns are all about the front seven players. The nose tackle should be in the 330-pound range (i.e. Ted Washington), the outside linebacker needs to have great pass rush skills and some pass coverage skills (i.e. Mike Vrabel), the inside linebacker needs to be close to 6-foot-3 and 250 pounds (i.e. Ted Johnson) and the defensive ends need to be close to 6-5 and 300 pounds (i.e. Richard Seymour).

NOTE: *=POSITION CHANGE and there is some risk he can't do it.
?=does not meet the height/weight requirement.

Team NT OLBs 2-gap DEs ILBs
SF ?*Anthony Adams
Issac Sopoaga Julian Peterson
*Andre Carter John Engelberger
*Bryant Young *Derrick Smith

San Francisco's nose tackle (Adams) is barely 6 feet tall; Sopoaga (6-2, 320) is more the type. Carter played with his hand on the ground before this, so there is an adjustment. But he and Peterson have 46 career sacks between them, which far outweighs the other teams. Smith has played his whole career in a 4-3 defense and will have to learn how to take on guards. The defensive ends are undersized and are known more for their one-gap quickness. Overall, the Niners need better defensive ends and a better strong inside linebacker to make the conversion successful if they decide to do it.

Team NT OLBs 2-gap DEs ILBs
MIA *Larry Chester
*Tim Bowens *Jason Taylor
*Donnie Spragan *Kevin Carter
*Vonnie Holliday

The Dolphins have a long way to go if they plan on lining up in a 3-4 defense any time soon. Chester and Bowens are big enough and could hold up the nose tackle position in a rotation but it's a mighty expensive tandem. Like Andre Carter, Taylor would have to take his hand off the ground but he is athletic enough to do it. Taylor can produce the sacks and pass pressure but Spragen has one sack in six years. Kevin Carter and Holliday recently signed on with the Dolphins and are big enough, but both come from a 4-3 scheme. Finally, Thomas can play the weak-inside-linebacker spot, but they need a big, strong-side backer if they want to ever look at this scheme. I don't think this is the place to throw Junior Seau's name at this point in his career.

Team NT OLBs 2-gap DEs ILBs
CLE Jason Fisk Chaun Thompson
Ben Taylor Orpheus Roye
Kenard Lang Brandt Boyer
Matt Stewart

Cleveland recently signed Fisk, who was the backup nose tackle for the Chargers, and he can "hold the fort" for Crennel. The outside linebackers have 2½ career sacks between them; that's not good enough for this package. The defensive ends have the size and, at this point in their careers, probably will play better in this scheme than in a four-man front, where quickness is a bigger requirement. They need a big inside linebacker. The Browns can line up in a 3-4 but they need playmakers at the linebacker spots.

Team NT OLBs 2-gap DEs ILBs
DAL Jason Ferguson Al Singleton
Bradie James Greg Ellis
La'Roi Glover

The Cowboys solved the nose tackle position in free agency. Parcells' 3-4 always has generated lots of pressure from the outside linebackers, but James and Singleton have only 3½ sacks between them in their careers. Lawrence Taylor got that in one game on occasion. Glover and Ellis aren't the prototypical defensive ends, but they can do it if Dallas heads in this direction. Like Thomas in Miami, Dat Nguyen can play weak inside backer, but he can't line up over the guard and win very often. These coaches know what they need if they go through with the transition from 4-3 to 3-4, but the question remains: Can they get enough talent in the draft if they have to use a few picks on offense for other problems and their 3-4 competitors are grabbing all the talent?

This "logjam" might get resolved by a team or two turning back on the plan and sticking with a 4-3 scheme for another year. As for the few remaining free agents who can help, look to a pair of Ravens free agents -- LB Edgerton Hartwell and DE Marques Douglas -- and maybe Rams LB Tommy Polley (as an outside LB), recently cut Texans LB Jay Foreman and Colts LB Rob Morris as guys who could line up and give you a chance. If any of the top three teams use their first-round pick on the offensive side of the ball -- and they all might do it -- the Cowboys, with two picks in the first round, could come away with two terrific outside linebackers or a linebacker and a defensive end. If Parcells ever got out of the first two rounds with players like Marcus Spears, Derrick Johnson and Darryl Blackstock, the groundwork would be done to build his 3-4.

**BrAinPaiNt** · 03-16-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nors

If Parcells ever got out of the first two rounds with players like Marcus Spears, Derrick Johnson and Darryl Blackstock, the groundwork would be done to build his 3-4.

The quote should read....

If Parcells ever got out of the first two rounds with players like Marcus Spears, Derrick Johnson and Darryl Blackstock....we should all get on our knees and kiss his butt while pigs fly out of it.

Hard to see us getting those three, but I would be a happy camper if we did.

AsthmaField · 03-16-2005

We should very easily get out of the first two rounds with a couple of players who are able to play the 3-4.

Spears, Merriman, Ware, Blackstock all would fit. S. Cody from USC would be a fine fit at DE as would T. Johnson from Fla. St. Even Tuck or Pollack would do nicely.

After seeing the numbers Pollack put up in the change of direction drills at the combine, I think he'd do well at OLB.

**ABQCOWBOY** · 03-16-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrAinPaiNt

The quote should read....

If Parcells ever got out of the first two rounds with players like Marcus Spears, Derrick Johnson and Darryl Blackstock....we should all get on our knees and kiss his butt while pigs fly out of it.

Hard to see us getting those three, but I would be a happy camper if we did.

First it was talk of sheep outfits and now it's all about butt kissing and pig flying. What is the hidden message your trying to get acrossed BP?

I'm worried about you.

LOL

**BrAinPaiNt** · 03-16-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by ABQCOWBOY

First it was talk of sheep outfits and now it's all about butt kissing and pig flying. What is the hidden message your trying to get acrossed BP?

I'm worried about you.

LOL

I thought my secret was safe with you....didn't you say you were a rancher with many animals?

**ABQCOWBOY** · 03-16-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrAinPaiNt

I thought my secret was safe with you....didn't you say you were a rancher with many animals?

LOL....

No, I said I have to be careful of ranchers with many animals were I to wear a suggested Sheep Suit to the Regionals.

LOL.............................

blindzebra · 03-16-2005

Here is the key line:

As Bill Parcells said to me two weeks ago when we discussed the 3-4 and 4-3 packages, "One of the two packages has to be the foundation, and it's not wise to get into one if you don't have the personnel to do it."

We don't have the personnel and we are SEVERAL players away from having it.

We DO HAVE THE PERSONNEL for the 4-3.

Alexander · 03-16-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by blindzebra

Here is the key line:

As Bill Parcells said to me two weeks ago when we discussed the 3-4 and 4-3 packages, "One of the two packages has to be the foundation, and it's not wise to get into one if you don't have the personnel to do it."

We don't have the personnel and we are SEVERAL players away from having it.

We DO HAVE THE PERSONNEL for the 4-3.

If we acquire the services of Howard, then we have the personnel for the 4-3 and that seals the deal for the length of the contract he would sign for.

As it stands right now, we have 3/7ths of the 3-4; 4/7ths of the 4-3.

It could still go either way.

**ABQCOWBOY** · 03-16-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexander

If we acquire the services of Howard, then we have the personnel for the 4-3 and that seals the deal for the length of the contract he would sign for.

As it stands right now, we have 3/7ths of the 3-4; 4/7ths of the 4-3.

It could still go either way.

I don't agree with this assesment at all. If we never signed Howard or another DE, we would have the personel to play a 43 this year. I think that maybe 3 of the seven current starters are fits for a 34.

Doomsday101 · 03-16-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by ABQCOWBOY

I don't agree with this assesment at all. If we never signed Howard or another DE, we would have the personel to play a 43 this year. I think that maybe 3 of the seven current starters are fits for a 34.

True and the only DL man who is suited for the 3-4 is Ferguson. None of the other Ellis and Glover are not natural 3-4 starters or Howard if signed.

StateCollegeCowboy · 03-16-2005

Another good Kirwin article. He rarely puts out a bad article, because they are always indepth and thoughtout. I wish there were more writers like him out there.

**ABQCOWBOY** · 03-16-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doomsday101

True and the only DL man who is suited for the 3-4 is Ferguson. None of the other Ellis and Glover are not natural 3-4 starters or Howard if signed.

Square pegs and round holes to be sure. I think a lot of people bank on the fact that because Ellis and Glover have the measurables, they will fit a 34 without a problem. I would not make that assumption. Put that together with the fact that Zimmer doesn't know the 34 and I think you have problems. Parcells may know the 34 but being a HC, the OC and the DC is a great deal to ask of anybody.

Alexander · 03-16-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by ABQCOWBOY

I don't agree with this assesment at all. If we never signed Howard or another DE, we would have the personel to play a 43 this year. I think that maybe 3 of the seven current starters are fits for a 34.

With Ogbogu at RDE?

With Bradie James at ROLB?

We may have the personnel to play it, but it is not good personnel.

Doomsday101 · 03-16-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by ABQCOWBOY

Square pegs and round holes to be sure. I think a lot of people bank on the fact that because Ellis and Glover have the measurables, they will fit a 34 without a problem. I would not make that assumption. Put that together with the fact that Zimmer doesn't know the 34 and I think you have problems. Parcells may know the 34 but being a HC, the OC and the DC is a great deal to ask of anybody.

Square peg and round hole is a perfect description. Why would I want to take Glover and Ellis and move them into position they have not played and are not really suited for? Even Ferguson has indicated that he too prefers the 4-3 defense granted in large part because it allows him to be more of a play maker at DT than he would be at NT where he would be taking on the double teams all the time. Myself I like the ideal of having a front 4 of Ellis, Glover, Ferguson and Howard (if we can reach a deal) I think that would make for very good front 4

StateCollegeCowboy · 03-16-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doomsday101

True and the only DL man who is suited for the 3-4 is Ferguson. None of the other Ellis and Glover are not natural 3-4 starters or Howard if signed.

Yea, It is pretty obvious the 4-3 will be our base defense this year with the 3-4 mixed in. The question becomes will we have gathered enough players this year to help take that next step to the 3-4 the following year. I can't see Bill making a switch during his last year here. There are always problems during the year of transition as the players get comfortable with the scheme. Is that how Bill wants to finish his last year here or will he plan to stay longer?

On another note, with or without the Howard trade, I see us taking at least 1 offensive player with a pick in the first two rounds.