My Mock Draft Rds 1 thru. 4 - Page 2 - Dallas Cowboys Forum

btcutter · 03-21-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles

I won't be surprised if most scouts don't rate Clarett.

Its naive to think they don'tm have an axe to grind. Clarett suing the NFL to allow players into the NFL doesn't bond well with the scouts who are making a living off the NFL minor league ooops I mean Collegiate football.

What the scouts can't ignore is Claretts productivity and playmaking ability on the field at Ohio State. Drew Henson gets more run/praise based on limited playing time in college even though his impact on the Wolverines doesn't even come close to Claretts presence for the Buckeyes. We all know Drew Henson was getting better at playing QB learning how to hit a curve ball and field ground balls. His upside like Clarett's should dictate where he goes, not his combine or attitude.

I do not agree that his upside should dictate where he is drafted. It doesn't matter if he's got talent if he can't stay on the field because of his attitude or off field issues. Let me ask you again, would you give up 42nd pick for Ricky William? Probably not, at least I hope not. I don't think you find any knowledgable person willing to give that up for him now. You don't chance that with your 2nd pick when the team has so many needs. Swinging for the fenses with you picks is what got the Cowboys in trouble in the 80s when they drafted players like Rod Hill in the 1st when everyone else rated him a 3rd or 4th round talent.

Your first three rounds really should be as close to sure thing as possible so you can built your team. Sure it's unavoidable to have busts but let's leave the speculations for the 2nd day.

Henson isn't a headcase and he's willing to work. Clarett quits at first signs of adversity. BTW, if you haven't noticed..RB's are on sale. You can pick up Edge or Alexander maybe for 2nd rounder. QB position is an entirely different animal. Franchises struggle for a decade to find one. "you can't dial 1800-Quarterback". Why do you think every yr QB gets top billing in the draft although everyone knows there are higher rated players.

Arcanius64 · 03-21-2005

If they werent willing to keep Antonio Bryant (who btw has alot of talent), what makes you think they gonna go after another head case (or controversial figure) in Clarett?

Charles · 03-21-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by btcutter

I do not agree that his upside should dictate where he is drafted. It doesn't matter if he's got talent if he can't stay on the field because of his attitude or off field issues. Let me ask you again, would you give up 42nd pick for Ricky William? Probably not, at least I hope not. I don't think you find any knowledgable person willing to give that up for him now. You don't chance that with your 2nd pick when the team has so many needs.

Exactly what attitude problem kept Clarett off the field at Ohio? Clarett was the scape goat at Ohio. The only crime he commited was being dumb enough to overvalue items stolen from his car. A car that was provided by a known local car dealer who has been providing luxury cars and SUVs for Buckeyes for many years. It lead to an investigation that opened up can of worms at Ohio State. So far the Athletic president has been forced out, the coach is lookin gover his shoulder and the Buckeyes program is under investigation for false grades and gifts to players. Typical in most successful athletic programs.

I'd give up our 42nd if Ricky Williams wants to play football again. I'd rather have Julius Jones and Ricky than Julius and Bickerstaff or Reshard Lee (training camp heroes). Ricky has proven he can play.Any knowledgable person knows that Ricky instantly becomes the best RB on our roster if he becomes a Cowboy. That what matters to me. I could care less about "Character guys" seem to dissapear when it matters the most. You can take character, I'll take Randy Moss mooning the fans after scoring the TD in play-off game.

Its somewhat hypocritical of a Cowboy fan to preach character when our 90's roster spent as much time on the police/court depth chart.

Quote:

Originally Posted by btcutter

Swinging for the fenses with you picks is what got the Cowboys in trouble in the 80s when they drafted players like Rod Hill in the 1st when everyone else rated him a 3rd or 4th round talent

Yep and we all know the Cowboys in the 80s swung themselves right out of the play-offs.

Tom Landry really stunk it up in the 80s sarcasm/off

Quote:

Originally Posted by btcutter

Your first three rounds really should be as close to sure thing as possible so you can built your team. Sure it's unavoidable to have busts but let's leave the speculations for the 2nd day.

I bet the scouts thought Leaf, Smith, Enis, Couch were sure picks. They also thought Tom Brady and Terell Owens weren't 1st day picks.

I think your point is dubious. History has shown that there aren't any sure picks. Players have to prove they have what it takes. Just my opinion that Clarett is as good as Ronnie Brown. I am not an expert.

Quote:

Originally Posted by btcutter

Henson isn't a headcase and he's willing to work. Clarett quits at first signs of adversity. BTW, if you haven't noticed..RB's are on sale. You can pick up Edge or Alexander maybe for 2nd rounder. QB position is an entirely different animal. Franchises struggle for a decade to find one. "you can't dial 1800-Quarterback". Why do you think every yr QB gets top billing in the draft although everyone knows there are higher rated players.

If Clarett wasn't willing to work why did he show up at the combine. He got frustrated and left. I know it was a very poor decision, but he felt he couldn't help himself in the draft by continuing. He has organized a personal work-out in Ohio. Is that a sign of a player quiting??? Did he quit when Sean Taylor interecepted Krentzel pass in the end zone during the championship game or did he out run WRs and opposing DBs to strip Taylor of the ball. Isn't that the "No quit" attitude we want. I want a guy who can play football, not a guy who can make small talk with kids at training camp.

btcutter · 03-21-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles

Exactly what attitude problem kept Clarett off the field at Ohio? Clarett was the scape goat at Ohio. The only crime he commited was being dumb enough to overvalue items stolen from his car. A car that was provided by a known local car dealer who has been providing luxury cars and SUVs for Buckeyes for many years. It lead to an investigation that opened up can of worms at Ohio State. So far the Athletic president has been forced out, the coach is lookin gover his shoulder and the Buckeyes program is under investigation for false grades and gifts to players. Typical in most successful athletic programs.

[View Full Quote]

Ricky Williams is 30 lb under his playing wt and has not indicated he wants to play football. He's teamates won't take him back! How do yo go to war with someone that you can't trust? I doubt he starts in Big D. Sure in his prime he'll beat out JJ but certainly not now.

I like to see how many on this board agrees with trading our 2nd for Ricky William or 2nd for Clarett (he probably can be had for a 7th)

Clarett as good as Brown? You can't be serious!

I am just glad you are not running our draft.

Charles · 03-21-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by btcutter

Ricky Williams is 30 lb under his playing wt and has not indicated he wants to play football.

Atleast he's not fat and out of shape.

I never stated he wants to play football again, you brought it up, but if he does want to play again, I'd trade our 42nd pick. He's a proven stud in the NFL. Nothing in the whole wide world can gurrantee the same production from a collegiate player.

Quote:

Originally Posted by btcutter

He's teamates won't take him back! How do yo go to war with someone that you can't trust?

How do you know they won't take him back. I bet his teammates would rather block for Ricky than Sammy Morris, Travis Mimor or which character

guy you can find on the RB depth chart. The only thing Ricky would have to do is show up at camp and all will be forgiven.

Why has Nick Saban been trying to contact Ricky since he got the Dolphins gig. Because Ricky has VALUE in the NFL.

Quote:

Originally Posted by btcutter

I doubt he starts in Big D. Sure in his prime he'll beat out JJ but certainly not now.

My money would be on Ricky to start. He'd be going into his 6th year and he's only 28. Ricky has done and proven things in the NFL that Julius Jones hasn't even dreamed off.

Quote:

Originally Posted by btcutter

I like to see how many on this board agrees with trading our 2nd for Ricky William or 2nd for Clarett (he probably can be had for a 7th)

Clarett as good as Brown? You can't be serious!

I am just glad you are not running our draft.

I'd also like to see how many thought Gurode was a safe pick.

Yes, I believe Clarett is as good as Ronnie Brown. I am serious.

Rack Bauer · 03-21-2005

If we draft Heath Miller in the first and/or MAURICE CLARETT in the second I will f'ing hurt many people.

Clarett probably won't even get drafted, and you have us taking him in the second? You HAVE to be on something. Seriously.

**BrAinPaiNt** · 03-21-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rack

If we draft Heath Miller in the first and/or MAURICE CLARETT in the second I will f'ing hurt many people.

Clarett probably won't even get drafted, and you have us taking him in the second? You HAVE to be on something. Seriously.

Oh I think a team drafts him on the second day....just not in the second round.

Rack Bauer · 03-21-2005

As long as it isn't the Cowboys.

Derinyar · 03-21-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles

What gurrantees do you have that any other player selected will be a starter. None what so ever. Was Ben Watson considered a back-up to Danile Graham. Did the Eagles NOT select any DBs because they would be back-ups in their 1st season with Troy Vincent and Bobby Taylor starting.
Did the Rams pass on Steven Jackson because he wouldn't be starting his 1st year behind Faulk. Vince Woolfork was drafted but didn't start because of Keith Traylor. The Panthers took Deshaun Foster in the 2nd RD after giving Stephen Davis a fat contract. The Saints drafted Will Smith even though Darren Howard has atleast 4 to 5 seasons left.

I could go on and on. You always draft the best player regardless of need (Qb being the exception if you have a stud). Good players always find a way to get on the field and contribute.

Other than possibly WR, what major holes did the Dvision Champion Eagles have coming out of those seasons? Thats the difference, your talking about talented teams without glaring holes, and trying to apply that to our squad. Its a fallacious argument. Faulk hasn't played a full season in several years now, and is on the down side of his career. DE is a primary position, that you can almost never go wrong drafting someone who has stud possibilty as they get huge dollars when they hit the open market. You pick things that support your postion in a vacuum, but don't really apply fully to the situation.

TE is a secondary postion. Most teams function quite well without a good TE. To add a second one on a team that already has one, a very young one, is a stupid manuver, especially trading up to do so. I could see us taking Miller if he falls all the way to the 2nd round pick, just because at that point he would be a huge value.

So you advocate if when we pick the best player on the board at all our picks is a RB, then we should take 3 RBs with our first three picks? Position depth/quality on the team factored with age goes into the making of the board. Heath Miller is not likely to ever be the top player on the Cowboys board, because we won't rate him as highly as some other teams will. We have no need for a 1st round backup TE. Witten and Miller are within one year of eachothers age, and Witten has already proven hes both tough and a probowl calibur player. Miller is likely just to not be an option.

Where as the 5th WR you seem to be complaining about would be an upgrade. Last year at the end of the year against teams that were as bad as we were 2 late round or undrafted players managed to have a couple of good games. We only have one semi-proven WR under the age of 30. Our top two WR are both over 30, and one hasn't finished a year in a while now. WR is a huge postion of need, so therefore will likely move up the board for the cowboys.

Q_the_man · 03-21-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles

I won't be surprised if most scouts don't rate Clarett.

Its naive to think they don'tm have an axe to grind. Clarett suing the NFL to allow players into the NFL doesn't bond well with the scouts who are making a living off the NFL minor league ooops I mean Collegiate football.

What the scouts can't ignore is Claretts productivity and playmaking ability on the field at Ohio State. Drew Henson gets more run/praise based on limited playing time in college even though his impact on the Wolverines doesn't even come close to Claretts presence for the Buckeyes. We all know Drew Henson was getting better at playing QB learning how to hit a curve ball and field ground balls. His upside like Clarett's should dictate where he goes, not his combine or attitude.

Great Post, Henson has not played in 4 years and we trade a 3rd for him, Let's not forget QB is alot harder to learn, play, or whatsoever than RB. Though Clarett head might not be the smartest he does have talent....

I cant remember his name, I think Charles Mann that could not read a lick, dumb as all out doors but cold play Football and the bottom line i can u play football....

Rack Bauer · 03-21-2005

RB is one of the easier positions to learn in football. Its the reason RBs don't get drafted as high as they used to, normally. Who expected NO RBs to get drafted in the top 23 picks last year?

That same reason is the reason no one will take a huge gamble on Clarett. Cuz they can find RBs later w/o taking a risk. Clarett will be a second day pick. Period. I'll be anyone here $20 on that. Please, take that bet cuz I could use the $$$.

Avery · 03-21-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rack

If we draft Heath Miller in the first and/or MAURICE CLARETT in the second I will f'ing hurt many people.

Post of the day.

Charles · 03-21-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rack

RB is one of the easier positions to learn in football. Its the reason RBs don't get drafted as high as they used to, normally. Who expected NO RBs to get drafted in the top 23 picks last year?

That same reason is the reason no one will take a huge gamble on Clarett. Cuz they can find RBs later w/o taking a risk. Clarett will be a second day pick. Period. I'll be anyone here $20 on that. Please, take that bet cuz I could use the $$$.

Hey I'll take that bet, but if I win I don't want your money, Keep it, just have a couple of beers on me preferrably ice cold Sam Adams.

I think Clarett will be a 1st day pick!!!!!

Is it a bet Rack?

sybarite · 03-21-2005

I thought the Cowboys were satisfied with their TE. Given all the holes, TE seems to be the least of the worries.

Clarett? A man among boys, who, unfortunately, would be a child among men.

Derinyar · 03-21-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles

Hey I'll take that bet, but if I win I don't want your money, Keep it, just have a couple of beers on me preferrably ice cold Sam Adams.

I think Clarett will be a 1st day pick!!!!!

Is it a bet Rack?

Clarett has 8 games in an injured season 2 years in the past. No one knows what his abilities are. Thats the reason hes not getting ranked by scouts. Someone might take a shot on him, but its likely going to be after the 4th round, because there are much better bets to make an impact out there than Clarett.