Interesting discussion on race on ESPN First Take

[CowboysFanSince88]

Yesterday they were talking about TEBOW of course and how patience coaches and the GM is with him because he is a white QB. Then brought up how a black QB has to play on a SUPERSTAR level or he is out of the league. You never see a black QB as a 2 or 3 rd string only white QB"s. Cordell stewart on there talking about how he felt like he wasn't given a fair opportunity with the Bears after a few bad games.

THat's a good point because it's a white QB who has had several bad games for years and still is a starter.........."Rex Grossman" LOL


But I never thought about the black QB having to be a STAR or CUT until it was brought up yesterday. They pointed out how you can't be a average black QB in the NFL.

[Cowboys&LakersFan]

Vick is an average black QB and he's still the Eagles starting QB.

[CowboysFanSince88]

Originally Posted by Cowboys&LakersFan

Vick is an average black QB and he's still the Eagles starting QB.

I know and you know that Vick is ABOVE average as much as it pains me to say it. If he was average the Eagles would have finished 6-10 instead of 8-8.

[casmith07]

It was an interesting discussion that I think may have some merit. It would need a bigger study than a couple of guys sitting around on First Take talking about it, though.

[CowboysFanSince88]

Originally Posted by casmith07

It was an interesting discussion that I think may have some merit. It would need a bigger study than a couple of guys sitting around on First Take talking about it, though.

Bigger study??? Let's look at this season

Mcnabb a 35 year black QB who was not called by any team

Jeff Garcia a 41 year QB who hasn't played in 3 years was called to be a 3rd string?

[Cowboys&LakersFan]

Originally Posted by CowboysFanSince88

I know and you know that Vick is ABOVE average as much as it pains me to say it. If he was average the Eagles would have finished 6-10 instead of 8-8.

Dude look at his numbers from this year. 18 touchdowns, 14 picks. That's average. He's a great athlete, but when it comes to being an NFL QB he's average. If he was above average the Eagles would've made the playoffs.

[CowboysFanSince88]

Originally Posted by Cowboys&LakersFan

Dude look at his numbers from this year. 18 touchdowns, 14 picks. That's average. He's a great athlete, but when it comes to being an NFL QB he's average.

Average Passer with SPEED and ELUSIVENESS. Now if he didn't have that then he would be a overall average QB. His running is what keeps him as a starter

[BrAinPaiNt]

I don't know if it is a valid argument or not. Really have not looked that close at it.

However I will say that you kind of hurt your argument a little with Kordell Stewart saying he did not get a fair shot in Chicago...I think he got way more than a fair shot in Pittsburgh because Cowher liked him and played him longer than he should have. But that is just my opinion.

[CowboysFanSince88]

Originally Posted by BrAinPaiNt

I don't know if it is a valid argument or not. Really have not looked that close at it.

However I will say that you kind of hurt your argument a little with Kordell Stewart saying he did not get a fair shot in Chicago...I think he got way more than a fair shot in Pittsburgh because Cowher liked him and played him longer than he should have. But that is just my opinion.

He said he didn't get a fair shot in chicago but had a long run in Pittsburgh

[BrAinPaiNt]

Originally Posted by CowboysFanSince88

He said he didn't get a fair shot in chicago but had a long run in Pittsburgh

Yeah I think it kind of cancels out the chicago thing because he had a much longer run in Pittsburgh than he should have because of Cowher liking him. I also seem to recall him crying on the sidelines because he was pulled.

Just not sure he is the person you would want making the argument or using him as part of your argument.

I am sure there are much better examples out there.

[Hoofbite]

Tavaris Jackson?

How about the Webb guy who's a backup?

Troy Smith backing people up.

Who's the QB Tampa had, King? Backup.

Steelers have 2 black backups?

[CowboysFanSince88]

Originally Posted by Hoofbite

Tavaris Jackson?

How about the Webb guy who's a backup?

Troy Smith backing people up.

Who's the QB Tampa had, King? Backup.

Steelers have 2 black backups?

The point they are making is a black QB is usually not a backup that long. Most white QB's make a career out of being a backup QB like

Kerry Collins
Todd Collins
Mark Brunell


once these black QB's fell to backup status they vanished from the league

doug williams
Dante Culpepper
Aaron Brooks

[Cowboys&LakersFan]

Originally Posted by CowboysFanSince88

Average Passer with SPEED and ELUSIVENESS. Now if he didn't have that then he would be a overall average QB. His running is what keeps him as a starter

I guess Tebow is a starting QB too then.

[Biggems]

29 QBs have won the SB
27 are white, 1 is Native American (Plunkett), and 1 is black (Williams)

35 QBs have lost the SB
33 are white, 2 are black (McNair, McNabb)


So, 60 white QBs have started the SB, 3 black QBs, and 1 Native American.

I am not trying to make a case for white vs black QBs.....I was just curious about the numbers so I looked them up. BTW, the numbers do make quite a bit of sense, seeing as how having a black QB was quite taboo up until the mid-late 80s.....and even then, they were not given much of a chance, with the exception of a few like Williams, Cunningham, and Moon.

[CowboysFanSince88]

Originally Posted by Cowboys&LakersFan

I guess Tebow is a starting QB too then.

Tebow is BELOW AVERAGE which is why they started the discussion