Melvin Ingram is a beast

[Woods]

Originally Posted by supercowboy8

That would mean we would have to resign Spencer $$$ so you have no reason to pick Ingram in the first round. Also where can three OLBs play?

I think RR could definitely use three rushers on passing downs. I think in Ryan's schemes he could find a use for three good LBs plus Ware and Lee.

It's not my top scenario. I prefer DeCastro or a top CB. But I wouldn't be upset with Ingram.

[TheCount]

Originally Posted by cobra

I don't know anything about the guy, but I watched some clips and he seems to be hella slow off the ball. Like a full second slower to react than everyone else. Is that accurate?

Yeah I noticed that too, bit slow, seems more like a DE to me, even if he is by athletic but lack of elite speed may not be so bad at strong side OLB.

The whole physical freak thing is so overplayed though.
Ast year, there were a few members promising than Robert Quinn would jump out of the stadium, do 60 reps and run a 4.2. He didn't live up to the hype.

[kevinhickey]

I will keep track of him at the combine to see how he performs. I'm a little spoiled after watching Ware play; I would love for Dallas to uncover, another pass rushing freak.

[Eskimo]

Originally Posted by MichaelWinicki

Agreed on Ingram and Mercilus.

Potentially nice players, but not dominant players.

I don't think either one is superior to Spencer.

The problem with Spencer isn't his overall level of play which is pretty good.

The problem is that he is a bad pass rusher. He is not a good speed rusher, he doesn't bullrush at all, he is not good with his hands and he doesn't have a good inside counter. He has no instincts to get by pass blockers. He is too slow twitch and doesn't have good moves.

We are desperate for a second pass rusher to complement Ware. In 2008 and 2009 when our defense was playing better (at least some of the time) Ratliff was the guy who complemented Ware. Unfortunately, Rat can't get by anymore and is getting stoned at the line and no one else is stepping up for him.

If we were to bring back Spencer, we have to bring in someone else to help get after QBs in the nickel.

Under these circumstances, we are just better off parting with Spencer even if it means accepting a lesser overall player who is a better pass rusher. I think it is worth it to pay that premium in FA and I also believe it is worth it to draft someone with our first round pick who projects to be a double digit sack guy. We apparently were thinking along these lines last year and had Aldon Smith ranked ahead of Tyron Smith according to some media sources.

[Gaede]

I like Ingram alot.

He does, at first glance, appear to be slow off the ball. But it looks like he's asked to either drop or rush on alot of plays--and I think that his slow step is merely him diagnosing the play and deciding which duty to fulfill. The most impressive thing to me, is that once he decides to do one or the other, he gets there extremely fast--despite the initial hesitation. This tells me that Ingram has both excellent awareness and explosion

[MichaelWinicki]

Originally Posted by Gaede

I like Ingram alot.

He does, at first glance, appear to be slow off the ball. But it looks like he's asked to either drop or rush on alot of plays--and I think that his slow step is merely him diagnosing the play and deciding which duty to fulfill. The most impressive thing to me, is that once he decides to do one or the other, he gets there extremely fast--despite the initial hesitation. This tells me that Ingram has both excellent awareness and explosion

But without the instincts maybe.

[Doomsday101]

Originally Posted by Eskimo

He definitely has to be on our radar for that #14 pick. Every pick will start to have some questions at that point. He fills two huge needs for us at OLB (if we let Spencer walk) and as a pass rushing complement to Ware.

I would still put Kirkpatrick (if he falls which is unlikely) or DeCastro (decent chance he falls to us - OGs always fall) over him as they are more elite talents.

I agree. Ingram in my view is at least one of the valid options for the Cowboys. He is a very good player and could be a big help to this team.

As you pointed out Kirkpatrick and DeCastro also are 2 guys that would be great additions to this team.

[burmafrd]

we need SOMEONE that is a threat to get double digit sacks. Is any of these guys likely to do that?

[jmac]

Im a Gamecocks fan and Ingram is awesome. He can do anything he kind of reminds me of Randy White. He is just all out energy a leader and a ball hawk. Trust me if it was up to me I would draft him at 14 no question.

[supercowboy8]

Melvin Ingram, DE, South Carolina
One of the most consistent players in the SEC over the past few seasons has been Melvin Ingram. He finished his collegiate career with a superb game against Nebraska. Ingram recorded four tackles with 1.5 sacks and was a disruptive force at the line of scrimmage. To get the Bowl started, Ingram blasted quarterback Taylor Martinez on an option run for tackle for a loss. In the fourth quarter, the Cornhuskers signal caller dove to the ground to avoid a hit from Ingram. He showed his versatility by beating a guard with a speed-and-shed rush move to sack Martinez.

This year, Ingram totaled 48 tackles with 15 tackles for a loss and 10 sacks. In 2010, Ingram had nine sacks and 11 tackles for a loss for the Gamecocks. He is a rare athlete. The 6-foot-2, 276-pounder has natural pad level with sudden speed and agility. Ingram ran a fake punt for a 68-yard touchdown against Georgia earlier this season and returned a fumble for a touchdown against the Bulldogs. As a pass rusher, Ingram is a mismatch for offenses if he rushes from defensive tackle or end. Ingram could get consideration in the top 20 picks of the 2012 NFL Draft.

http://www.walterfootball.com/draft2012stock_16.php

[Gaede]

Originally Posted by MichaelWinicki

But without the instincts maybe.

I don't think so. I don't think you'd be able to rush the passer and/or cover as well as he does without the instincts.

[cobra]

I watched a few more clips of the guy (which certainly is not a sufficient basis to judge him) but I am even more concerned because he seems to be noticeably slow off the ball. Maybe it is the defense and his job to make reads or something. But it bugs me nonetheless when we are talking about taking this guy top 15.

For instance:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5dkw...eature=related

In those clips from one game, there is some to like what he shows, and there is some that gives me great concern.

If we are going to be taking a pass rusher at 14, I'd like it to be a guy with an elite ability to get off the ball. Wares, Freeney, etc are all great pass rushers because they explode at the snap.

Ingram looks like a guy who make plays and provides scheme versatility, but he doesn't blow me away as a pass rusher. In that regard, I wonder why he is an improvement over Spencer.

[Gaede]

Originally Posted by cobra

I watched a few more clips of the guy (which certainly is not a sufficient basis to judge him) but I am even more concerned because he seems to be noticeably slow off the ball. Maybe it is the defense and his job to make reads or something. But it bugs me nonetheless when we are talking about taking this guy top 15.

For instance:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5dkw...eature=related

I think it is just the way he's told to play, as I mentioned earlier. I'd like to know one way or the other, for sure, before I'd want him at 14. But it looks to me like he is supposed rush or cover depending on the offense, and his initial hesitation is just him diagnosing the play before he rushes or covers.

I mean, that's the only way I could see someone being so noticeably slow off the snap. When he does decide to rush or cover, you see such an explosive first step that I find it hard to believe he would be so initially slow.

[xwalker]

Originally Posted by cobra

I watched a few more clips of the guy (which certainly is not a sufficient basis to judge him) but I am even more concerned because he seems to be noticeably slow off the ball. Maybe it is the defense and his job to make reads or something. But it bugs me nonetheless when we are talking about taking this guy top 15.

For instance:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5dkw...eature=related

In those clips from one game, there is some to like what he shows, and there is some that gives me great concern.

If we are going to be taking a pass rusher at 14, I'd like it to be a guy with an elite ability to get off the ball. Wares, Freeney, etc are all great pass rushers because they explode at the snap.

[View Full Quote]Ingram looks like a guy who make plays and provides scheme versatility, but he doesn't blow me away as a pass rusher. In that regard, I wonder why he is an improvement over Spencer.

Ingram appears to play run-first, passrush-2nd in a lot of plays.

Look at :54 and :258 in that link. He looks really quick off the snap in those plays.

He looks like a perfect fit as a Stong-Side OLB in a 3-4. Having said that, I don't know about picking him at #14. Is he that much better than some other passrushers that would be available later?

In regards to quickness of the snap, Bruce Irvin is a incredible in that area.
http://www.youtube.com/embed/y9s85CjEexg
Check out 2:38 and 4:02 in this clip.
The issue with Irvin is that he is not really a fit at SOLB. Ware would need to play SOLB and let Irvin play WOLB. A lot of projections currently have in the mid 2nd round. That will probably change after the combine.

[visionary]

Originally Posted by xwalker

Ingram appears to play run-first, passrush-2nd in a lot of plays.

Look at :54 and :258 in that link. He looks really quick off the snap in those plays.

He looks like a perfect fit as a Stong-Side OLB in a 3-4. Having said that, I don't know about picking him at #14. Is he that much better than some other passrushers that would be available later?

In regards to quickness of the snap, Bruce Irvin is a incredible in that area.
http://www.youtube.com/embed/y9s85CjEexg
Check out 2:38 and 4:02 in this clip.
[View Full Quote]The issue with Irvin is that he is not really a fit at SOLB. Ware would need to play SOLB and let Irvin play WOLB. A lot of projections currently have in the mid 2nd round. That will probably change after the combine.

xwalker

how would you rate Vinny Curry relative to these guys (Ingram, Hightower, and Irvin) since he might be available even in the 3rd round

long term might he be right up there?