We need to go after a top DB, how many years has our secondary been crap now?

[CCBoy]

Originally Posted by xwalker

Good first post.

For this offseason, I hope that they sign a decent FA CB AND draft a CB in the first 3 rounds.

They need the FA because it appears that Rob Ryan does not like to play young players. He played Alan Ball and cut Josh Thomas and Bryan McCann. I don't think that there is any possibility that Alan Ball is physically better than either Thomas or McCann.

The 2012 draft appears to have a long list of CBs that can probably play in the NFL; however, other than Claiborne, none of them appear to be a slam-dunk to be great.

I hope that they draft CBs with high upsides vs ones that are more ready now but have limited upsides. A player like Dennard might be more ready now, but his upside might be more limited than some others.

I agree on two prominent additions at cornerback. Free agency would take pressure off of where in the draft.

[JackWagon]

Okay ... so even with 2 good corners Rex wasnt able to get his Jets into the playoffs ... and we are gonna get just one in the first round? Or are we gonna overpay for a CB in Free Agency also? BTW ... i think Jenkins will be an okay nickel back .. thats about it.

[supercowboy8]

Originally Posted by Doomsday101

Yes I have seen him play quite a bit and he is not a zone guy. You want to claim that fine but I have seen ample Bama games to know he is a man cover guy and did so last night as well, yes they will play zone but they will lock him in to man coverage as well.

yeah liek they did in the Florida game this year where he got beat deep mutiple times then they switched to zone and ran finally stopped FLorida and ran away with the game.

[supercowboy8]

Originally Posted by JackWagon

Okay ... so even with 2 good corners Rex wasnt able to get his Jets into the playoffs ... and we are gonna get just one in the first round? Or are we gonna overpay for a CB in Free Agency also? BTW ... i think Jenkins will be an okay nickel back .. thats about it.

Are you talking about Janoris Jenkins. The Nickel for him would be awful. You want your nickel CB to bigger and more physical zone type liek Scandrick.

Janoris Jenkins is the best pure man cover CB in the draft. Has amazing speed and great hips to turn and run with anyone and mirror any WR.

[supercowboy8]

Originally Posted by JackWagon

Okay ... so even with 2 good corners Rex wasnt able to get his Jets into the playoffs ... and we are gonna get just one in the first round? Or are we gonna overpay for a CB in Free Agency also? BTW ... i think Jenkins will be an okay nickel back .. thats about it.

but he was able to get them to back to back AFC championship games before this year.

[Doomsday101]

Originally Posted by supercowboy8

yeah liek they did in the Florida game this year where he got beat deep mutiple times then they switched to zone and ran finally stopped FLorida and ran away with the game.

Yes he had a bad game vs Florida when he went up aginst Andre Debose and yet is still the 2nd best prospect at CB. Bama does play some zone they also play a lot of man coverage and Kirkpatrick often is manned up vs the top WR.

You calling him a zone CB is your opinion not shared by all.

[supercowboy8]

Originally Posted by Doomsday101

Yes he had a bad game vs Florida when he went up aginst Andre Debose and yet is still the 2nd best prospect at CB. Bama does play some zone they also play a lot of man coverage and Kirkpatrick often is manned up vs the top WR.

You calling him a zone CB is your opinion not shared by all.

it might not be shared by all but it is by many. I don't see him being a shut down CB in a defense that plays man cover. Where he is going to be drafted that better be what he becomes. He might be a good CB in man, not saying he can't play man, just saying he is far and away better as a zone CB and where he will be drafted he will not live up to being as a man cover CB.

To me drafting Kirkpatrick that high he should be left on a island but I don't see it whith his speed and hips. He will be great if drafted by a zone defense team. Where he can have a real good Safety playing over top of him in zone like Alabama did so many times this year.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Originally Posted by JackWagon

Okay ... so even with 2 good corners Rex wasnt able to get his Jets into the playoffs ... and we are gonna get just one in the first round? Or are we gonna overpay for a CB in Free Agency also? BTW ... i think Jenkins will be an okay nickel back .. thats about it.

The age old question right? I tend to agree with you on this, or at least, what I think you might be trying to get at.

Of the 12 teams in the playoffs, I think that really only GB, NE and NO had poor defenses. All the rest either had decent defenses or defenses that came around towards the end of the season (Detroit, Denver, GMen). Of those 9 teams who do not do it with Offense (teams not named Packers, Pats or Saints), 7 of those 9 teams were in the top 10 in sacks in the NFL Defensively. The Pats were 14.

Baltimore 3
Giants 4
Cincy 5
Texans 6
9ers 7
Denver 10
Detroit 10

I have long been of the opinion that pressure does more for DB coverage then talent. You simply can't have 6 top DBs on one team. That's what you need if you are going to rely on your CBs and Safeties to get it done. I think you need good CBs and Safeties but I think you absolutely need guys who can pressure the QB. JMO

[robert70x7]

Originally Posted by supercowboy8

Are you talking about Janoris Jenkins. The Nickel for him would be awful. You want your nickel CB to bigger and more physical zone type liek Scandrick.

Janoris Jenkins is the best pure man cover CB in the draft. Has amazing speed and great hips to turn and run with anyone and mirror any WR.

Jenkins also wins the "Most Likely to Succeed Sam Hurd" drug award.

[RoyTheHammer]

Originally Posted by xwalker

Good first post.

For this offseason, I hope that they sign a decent FA CB AND draft a CB in the first 3 rounds.

They need the FA because it appears that Rob Ryan does not like to play young players. He played Alan Ball and cut Josh Thomas and Bryan McCann. I don't think that there is any possibility that Alan Ball is physically better than either Thomas or McCann.

The 2012 draft appears to have a long list of CBs that can probably play in the NFL; however, other than Claiborne, none of them appear to be a slam-dunk to be great.

I hope that they draft CBs with high upsides vs ones that are more ready now but have limited upsides. A player like Dennard might be more ready now, but his upside might be more limited than some others.

I think Alan Ball played pretty well this season considering the situation, and i don't have any doubt he's a better CB than both Thomas and McCann. Neither of those guys have ever showed much of anything at the position, although McCann was decent on returns.

[Doomsday101]

Originally Posted by supercowboy8

it might not be shared by all but it is by many. I don't see him being a shut down CB in a defense that plays man cover. Where he is going to be drafted that better be what he becomes. He might be a good CB in man, not saying he can't play man, just saying he is far and away better as a zone CB and where he will be drafted he will not live up to being as a man cover CB.

To me drafting Kirkpatrick that high he should be left on a island but I don't see it whith his speed and hips. He will be great if drafted by a zone defense team. Where he can have a real good Safety playing over top of him in zone like Alabama did so many times this year.

That is your take. Myself I like the kid and would have no problem getting him at 14. He is not considered a zone cover guy and listed as the 2nd best CB in the draft. Come on.

[RoyTheHammer]

Originally Posted by supercowboy8

Are you talking about Janoris Jenkins. The Nickel for him would be awful. You want your nickel CB to bigger and more physical zone type liek Scandrick.

Janoris Jenkins is the best pure man cover CB in the draft. Has amazing speed and great hips to turn and run with anyone and mirror any WR.

Scandrick's measurables are almost identical to Jenkins'.. not sure what you're talking about. Both are 5'10 and 185-190 lbs.

[Deep_Freeze]

Originally Posted by ABQCOWBOY

The age old question right? I tend to agree with you on this, or at least, what I think you might be trying to get at.

Of the 12 teams in the playoffs, I think that really only GB, NE and NO had poor defenses. All the rest either had decent defenses or defenses that came around towards the end of the season (Detroit, Denver, GMen). Of those 9 teams who do not do it with Offense (teams not named Packers, Pats or Saints), 7 of those 9 teams were in the top 10 in sacks in the NFL Defensively. The Pats were 14.

Baltimore 3
Giants 4
Cincy 5
Texans 6
9ers 7
Denver 10
Detroit 10

I have long been of the opinion that pressure does more for DB coverage then talent. You simply can't have 6 top DBs on one team. That's what you need if you are going to rely on your CBs and Safeties to get it done. I think you need good CBs and Safeties but I think you absolutely need guys who can pressure the QB. JMO

Alot of truth in there. I will say though, the Jets are brought up in this thread, but really their offense was horrible at the end the year and have a questionable at best pass rush, so saying they are an example of a team that shows you don't need great CB play is just not true. They have alot more problems everywhere on their team.

As for right now, I just don't see Dre getting to us, and the rest of the CBs would have to workout very well to move up for consideration at 14. To me, its just if we wanna move up for Dre, otherwise like pointed out above, its about the pass rush.

I figure by draft time, we could see some of those pass rushers move up based on workouts. Hard to say who it will be right now, never know this early, but I can definitely see it happening.

[JackWagon]

Thats exactly what im attempting to get through everyones heads. WE dont need elite corners ... we need elite front 7 players capable of stopping the run and rushing the passers. The ravens and steelers have defenses like this ... there is no reason why we cant have them ... oh but we cant draft .. thats right .. who am i kidding.

BTW i was talking about Mike "Toast" Jenkins ... who everyone thinks is out BESTEST Corner.

[robert70x7]

Originally Posted by JackWagon

Thats exactly what im attempting to get through everyones heads. WE dont need elite corners ... we need elite front 7 players capable of stopping the run and rushing the passers. The ravens and steelers have defenses like this ... there is no reason why we cant have them ... oh but we cant draft .. thats right .. who am i kidding.

BTW i was talking about Mike "Toast" Jenkins ... who everyone thinks is out BESTEST Corner.

Jenkins is our best corner.