Melvin Ingram... 264 LBS

[supercowboy8]

Originally Posted by TheCount

You're basing your opinion of Ingram on his combine numbers?

Yep there are some people who have never seen a player play one down and all they go off of is what these websites say and the combine numbers.

[cobra]

... I'm done with this argument. Not wasting any more time on it. No matter was is proven, people will fall back on some subjective claim.

It's nonsense.

I'm not wasting any more time on it. You can hope on stars and unicorns that your wet dreams come true, and I'll never be able to change that.

[InmanRoshi]

I think Spencer was probably a better pure pass rusher in college. He faced offensive tackles mano y mano and beat them. Seems like a lot of Ingram's sacks were "scheme sacks" where he got a free path to the QB, or at least an advantage on a comprimised OL, by the blitz schemes or movement of defense.

[Dough Boy]

Originally Posted by cobra

... I'm done with this argument. Not wasting any more time on it. No matter was is proven, people will fall back on some subjective claim.

It's nonsense.

I'm not wasting any more time on it. You can hope on stars and unicorns that your wet dreams come true, and I'll never be able to change that.

Single season or their college careers?

Ingram had the better career, Spencer had the better single season.

[TheCount]

Originally Posted by cobra

... I'm done with this argument. Not wasting any more time on it. No matter was is proven, people will fall back on some subjective claim.

It's nonsense.

I'm not wasting any more time on it. You can hope on stars and unicorns that your wet dreams come true, and I'll never be able to change that.

Oh, you've already "proven" Ingram will be no better than Spencer? What're you doing on the forum, you should start your own future telling service. I'm not saying he WILL be better, but the idea that because his combine times are similar to Spencer means he won't be any better is completely ridiculous.

[cobra]

Originally Posted by TheCount

Oh, you've already "proven" Ingram will be no better than Spencer? What're you doing on the forum, you should start your own future telling service.

You're missing the point.

As between two prospects, Ingram and Spencer, Spencer was a better prospect based on the two things you look at in drafting: measurables and production.

Spencer has been solid for us in the NFL, but many of you want to let him walk and draft Ingram.

The point is this: there is absolutely no objective reason to think that Ingram would be better than Spencer at SOLB. Spencer was the better prospect but Ingram will somehow be a better pro? It makes no sense. I wasn't trying to "prove" anything. I was pointing out how completely irrational it is to think/hope that Ingram will be better than Spencer. And in personnel decisions, I hope that the team is looking at objective data and not just crossing their fingers.

This has been hashed through, but some people here still take the position that Ingram will be better and when pushed it all comes down to subjective hope. That sort of subjective garbage is what I'm done discussing. It's moronic.

[burmafrd]

Sadly I do not see anyone in this draft that looks like a clear improvement over Spencer.

Might be why the boys are looking at franchizing him. Dumb reason frankly; I would take that $8.8 million and use it elsewhere and try Butler for a season.

[reddyuta]

Ingram passes the eye test to me,i dont care about the numbers but I think he is in the discussion @ 14.

[Dough Boy]

Originally Posted by cobra

You're missing the point.

As between two prospects, Ingram and Spencer, Spencer was a better prospect based on the two things you look at in drafting: measurables and production.

Ingram had a better career and more consistent production. Ingram did it in a better Conference for a longer period of time. Spencer had one good year, his Sr year. It was a really good Sr campaign.

Spencer has comparable measures to Ingram. Ingram more consistent production. I just don't get what you are seeing that says, Spencer had better production compared to Ingram.

[burmafrd]

Originally Posted by Dough Boy

Ingram had a better career and more consistent production. Ingram did it in a better Conference for a longer period of time. Spencer had one good year, his Sr year. It was a really good Sr campaign.

Spencer has comparable measures to Ingram. Ingram more consistent production. I just don't get what you are seeing that says, Spencer had better production compared to Ingram.

but not markedly better production. And since their measurables are almost identical, there is no real evidence he would be much better than Spencer

[Dough Boy]

Originally Posted by burmafrd

but not markedly better production. And since their measurables are almost identical, there is no real evidence he would be much better than Spencer

At least I can follow your logic. The one thing working in Ingram's favor, he played Def Tackle on run downs last year, moved to DE on passing downs. This year, he moved to DT on passing downs. If you take his production in that vein, its better darn good.

Look, I'm not saying Ingram will be 'Ware' like. And, while I would like more from Spencer, I think he is a very underated overall SOLB; I would not view Ingram as a 12-14 sack per year player. I think he is in the 8-10 range. I think Ingram may get to the 12 sack range playing opposite Ware, whereas Spencer is just not a sack artist. Ingram already has more moves to the QB than Spencer. Ingram will have better sack production than Spencer. If for no other reason, Ingram has a bigger motor and plays with more passion.

[jterrell]

Originally Posted by cobra

The guy that Ingram is the most "eerily similar to"?






Anthony Spencer. Can't understand how you people are not seeing that. A little less productive in college than Spencer and a little less physically impressive. But the damn guy is a lesser, unproven image of Anthony Spencer, who you want to replace with Ingram. I don't get it.

Anthony Spencer at the Combine
Height: 6027
Weight: 261
Arms: 32.5
40 yd: 4.7
10 yd: 1.64
Bench: 30 reps
Vert: 32.5"
Broad: 9'04"
20yd Shuttle: 4.43
3 cone: 7.14

Melvin Ingram at the Combine
Height: 6011 [inch and half shorter]
Weight: 264 [3 lbs heavier]
Arms: 31.5 [shorter arms]
40 yd: 4.79 [.09 secs slower]
10 yard: 1.72 [slower burst]
Bench: 28 reps [2 less reps]
Vert: 34.5" [2 inches higher]
[View Full Quote]Broad: 9'1" [3 inches shorter]
20yd Shuttle: ???
3 cone: ???

They are very close, but Spencer has slightly preferable results in everything, with the exception of the vertical jump. Spencer was faster overall, faster out of the blocks, stronger, and preferable size. We'll see how Ingram does on the shuttles and cones. Oh yeah, Spencer was a starter for his team in college, and he was more productive statistically but they are comparable.

It really is the closest comparison for Ingram, and yet Ingram comes up short compared to Spencer (no pun). However, some of you are willing to take the risk that Ingram will somehow be better than Spencer in the NFL at a position he has never played before?

I don't get it. It's irrational.

Spencer and Ingram are nothing alike as players.
Ingram played inside at DT and his go to move is a bull rush. His 264 pounds is after slimming down.

Where’s He Going?

Whenever a first-round talent has a stellar Combine showing, his stock usually jumps up. Ingram has definitely jumped up many big boards during his sessions.

There had been talk about the Miami Dolphins trying to trade out of the No. 9 spot, my feeling is that whichever team falls in love with the star will trade there and make the selection. My gut says this pick could cause a war in the AFC East.

While Bill Belichick isn’t known for making big trades up on draft day, I think Melvin Ingram has the talents and the Patriots have the need to make this pick happen. It won’t be that easy, though, with many believing Rex Ryan and the New York Jets may be looking to take the Gamecocks standout.

Whoever gets him may be looking at the next star defensive lineman in the NFL.

[Dough Boy]

Originally Posted by jterrell

Spencer and Ingram are nothing alike as players.
Ingram played inside at DT and his go to move is a bull rush. His 264 pounds is after slimming down.

Check out Ingrams 3 cone time. Wow!!! I didn't see that one coming.

[jnday]

Originally Posted by Dough Boy

Ingram had a better career and more consistent production. Ingram did it in a better Conference for a longer period of time. Spencer had one good year, his Sr year. It was a really good Sr campaign.

Spencer has comparable measures to Ingram. Ingram more consistent production. I just don't get what you are seeing that says, Spencer had better production compared to Ingram.

I wouldn't call Ingram consistent . I haven't read all the post in this thread to know if the fact that Ingram didn't have a sack in his first three games this year or that he had one sack in a six game span this year , have been brought up . He has big games or does little , kinda like Spencer . The stats I looked at helped change my mind on Ingram . I don't see that he would bring much more to the team than Spencer .

[jterrell]

Originally Posted by jnday

I wouldn't call Ingram consistent . I haven't read all the post in this thread to know if the fact that Ingram didn't have a sack in his first three games this year or that he had one sack in a six game span this year , have been brought up . He has big games or does little , kinda like Spencer . The stats I looked at helped change my mind on Ingram . I don't see that he would bring much more to the team than Spencer .

Therein lies your problem.... looking up stats.

Ingram played inside at DT most of the year because in the SEC you have to stop the run first. He was double-teamed and faced quality teams all year. Many of those games were grinders that no one hit 25 points in.

By the way bet those stats don't show the sack and a half he had in the bowl game versus Nebraska.

He was the best defensive player on an SEC defense that lead the way for an 11 win team.

Comparing that on-field production to Spencer at Purdue is a joke.