An $11.24 million penalty for a $2.568 million "advantage"... Schefter audio Post #39

[AdamJT13]

I mentioned earlier that other teams took advantage of the uncapped year, too, just not to the same extent that we did. Some teams did it to a lesser extent with multiple players, which apparently made it easier to dump a lot of their "cap" charges into 2010 (the uncapped year) without getting caught.

The Packers, for example, exploited the uncapped year to dump millions of cap dollars into 2010 in the contracts of Nick Collins and Ryan Pickett. More than 40 percent of Collins' four-year contract was charged against the 2010 "cap," which didn't exist. His 2010 "cap number" exceeded his 2011 and 2012 cap numbers combined and was at least $5 million higher than his cap number in any other year. According to the NFL, that was perfectly OK.

Had we used the EXACT SAME SALARY STRUCTURE on Miles Austin's first three years as the Packers did on Nick Collins' first three years, Austin's "cap number" in 2010 could have been $14.51 million, with no penalty at all AND a credit of $1.24 million this season (for 1/29th of the Redskins' $36 million penalty). Instead, Austin's cap number was $2.568 million higher than that, and we are being penalized a combined $11.24 million -- more than four times the "advantage" that we gained.


A closer look at the contracts they signed in 2010 --

NICK COLLINS' CAP NUMBERS
2010 (uncapped) = $10.95 million
2011 = $5.18 million (including a $918,000 incentive that was wiped out in 2011)
2012 = $5.05 million
2013 = $5.95 million

MILES AUSTIN'S CAP NUMBERS
2010 (uncapped) = $17.078 million
2011 = $8.54 million
2012 = $1.15 million
2013 = $6.732 million
2014 = $5.5 million
2015 = $6.888 million
2016 = $11.38 million


Had we used the *same* salary structure for the first three years that the Packers used without penalty, these would have been Austin's cap numbers --

2010 (uncapped) = $14.51 million
2011 = $6.782 million (including a $1.217 million incentive that would have been wiped out before the 2011 season and never charged)
2012 = $6.692 million
2013 = $6.732 million
2014 = $5.5 million
2015 = $6.888 million
2016 = $11.38 million


Had we used this contract structure, our cap commitment for 2011 would be $2.568 million more than it is right now, but we would *not* be getting penalized $10 million, we *would* be getting a $1.24 million credit from the league, and 28 other teams would have $360,000 less cap room than they have right now.

[Nav22]

This board's lucky to have you.

[rojan]

It would be nice to see how this compares to Julius Peppers' contract...I've heard that his was even worse..

[Pabst]

Have you considered sending your findings to some of the reporters following this story, or even a site like PFT?

You make an excellent point, and it'd be very interesting to see the NFL try to rationalize one teams' manipulation of the uncapped year as improper, while finding similar practice's fine. I'm very curious as to what exactly the line is, if it even exists. This story has been fishy since the beginning, and I'm not convinced there's not some sort of backroom shenanigans going on.

[AdamJT13]

Originally Posted by rojan

It would be nice to see how this compares to Julius Peppers' contract...I've heard that his was even worse..

It was not. Some reports about Peppers' contract structure were completely wrong.

These were Peppers' cap numbers when he signed --

2010 = $14,783,333
2011 = $12,783,333
2012 = $10,283,333
2013 = $14,283,333
2014 = $15,283,333
2015 = $17,583,335

[DandyDon1722]

Originally Posted by Pabst

Have you considered sending your findings to some of the reporters following this story, or even a site like PFT?

You make an excellent point, and it'd be very interesting to see the NFL try to rationalize one teams' manipulation of the uncapped year as improper, while finding similar practice's fine. I'm very curious as to what exactly the line is, if it even exists. This story has been fishy since the beginning, and I'm not convinced there's not some sort of backroom shenanigans going on.

I agree Adam. You have to submit these findings. Your body of work speaks for itself, it's not like you're some fan spouting off and throwing numbers at a wall. I believe those numbers are exactly right and the argument behind them paints a cogent and virtually undeniable truth. There is no conjecture here and I believe what you're saying would hold up under the scrutiny of the league or a courtroom.

Use your contacts or get some help from Hos or SDOGO or someone with a contact. Grassroots campaigns can make a difference.

[unionjack8]

Originally Posted by DandyDon1722

I agree Adam. You have to submit these findings. Your body of work speaks for itself, it's not like you're some fan spouting off and throwing numbers at a wall. I believe those numbers are exactly right and the argument behind them paints a cogent and virtually undeniable truth. There is no conjecture here and I believe what you're saying would hold up under the scrutiny of the league or a courtroom.

Use your contacts or get some help from Hos or SDOGO or someone with a contact. Grassroots campaigns can make a difference.

agreed, adam schefter earlier questioned those teams violating the cap floor, send it to him, he's as high profile as there is right now. He may work for espn but at least he seemed to be questioning the validity of the punishments.

[felix360]

Mike are saying the same, how were these contracts approved and now they are being punished. Can someone say conspiracy.

[Cowboys22]

Personally, I think Jerry should just let it go and here is why. The $10 million penalty will hardly even be noticed but the $36 million penalty for the skins will severly cripple a division rival who just secured a franchise QB and had $40 million to spend to fill holes in their roster. If Jerry fights it, he may end up helping the skins more than Dallas. Simply do whatever you were going to do anyway with creating cap space and signing free agents. They were likely going to keep $4-6 million in cap space unused anyway so just apply $2-3 million of that towards the penalty this year and the rest next year when all the dead money is gone and the cap is expected to increase substantially. Problem solved and the skins are still smarting from the deal. Another plus is that Jerry can keep all the money in lawyer fees and if Snyder sues the league and wins, Jerry will win back his $10 million as well without having spent a dime.

[BIGDen]

Adam, I really hope you get this info out to sportswriters, the NFL, and the Cowboys themselves. It would be nice to think that Dallas already knows the example you gave and others but I don't really know if they do. Knowing that they could have dumped salaries before the lockout but didn't is one reason (and certainly not the only reason) I don't assume that they always know what they're doing.

[Wood]

Originally Posted by BIGDen

Adam, I really hope you get this info out to sportswriters, the NFL, and the Cowboys themselves. It would be nice to think that Dallas already knows the example you gave and others but I don't really know if they do. Knowing that they could have dumped salaries before the lockout but didn't is one reason (and certainly not the only reason) I don't assume that they always know what they're doing.

the fact that you don't think the Cowboys know as much as poster on message board speaks volumes to the credibility of cowboys or lack of that I suspect many more fans feel about them.

[BIGDen]

Originally Posted by Wood

the fact that you don't think the Cowboys know as much as poster on message board speaks volumes to the credibility of cowboys or lack of that I suspect many more fans feel about them.

I know. It's sad and I'm not even close to being one of the front office's biggest detractors. I hope I've underestimated them and that they win this battle with the league.

[Deep_Freeze]

Originally Posted by Cowboys22

Personally, I think Jerry should just let it go and here is why. The $10 million penalty will hardly even be noticed but the $36 million penalty for the skins will severly cripple a division rival who just secured a franchise QB and had $40 million to spend to fill holes in their roster. If Jerry fights it, he may end up helping the skins more than Dallas. Simply do whatever you were going to do anyway with creating cap space and signing free agents. They were likely going to keep $4-6 million in cap space unused anyway so just apply $2-3 million of that towards the penalty this year and the rest next year when all the dead money is gone and the cap is expected to increase substantially. Problem solved and the skins are still smarting from the deal. Another plus is that Jerry can keep all the money in lawyer fees and if Snyder sues the league and wins, Jerry will win back his $10 million as well without having spent a dime.

In theory this is good, with them being a division rival and all, problem is they are just one team. We still have the Eagles and the Superbowl champion Giants in our division that we have to compete with and that penalty could affect our ability to compete with all the other teams in our division and in the league.

Although its hard for me to see anything that can help the Skins too, really this is an issue that we have no choice but to be against just like them. I'm more worried about us competing with the rest of the league than just the Skins, and this does hurt us against everyone else.

[cowboysooner]

Adam, do you have a database that shows the cuts that occurred at the end of or during 2010 and the cap advantage for the teams accelerating that bonus into the uncapped year? Thanks.

[Beast_from_East]

Originally Posted by AdamJT13

I mentioned earlier that other teams took advantage of the uncapped year, too, just not to the same extent that we did. Some teams did it to a lesser extent with multiple players, which apparently made it easier to dump a lot of their "cap" charges into 2010 (the uncapped year) without getting caught.

The Packers, for example, exploited the uncapped year to dump millions of cap dollars into 2010 in the contracts of Nick Collins and Ryan Pickett. More than 40 percent of Collins' four-year contract was charged against the 2010 "cap," which didn't exist. His 2010 "cap number" exceeded his 2011 and 2012 cap numbers combined and was at least $5 million higher than his cap number in any other year. According to the NFL, that was perfectly OK.

[View Full Quote]Had we used the EXACT SAME SALARY STRUCTURE on Miles Austin's first three years as the Packers did on Nick Collins' first three years, Austin's "cap number" in 2010 could have been $14.51 million, with no penalty at all AND a credit of $1.24 million this season (for 1/29th of the Redskins' $36 million penalty). Instead, Austin's cap number was $2.568 million higher than that, and we are being penalized a combined $11.24 million -- more than four times the "advantage" that we gained.


A closer look at the contracts they signed in 2010 --

NICK COLLINS' CAP NUMBERS
2010 (uncapped) = $10.95 million
2011 = $5.18 million (including a $918,000 incentive that was wiped out in 2011)
2012 = $5.05 million
2013 = $5.95 million

MILES AUSTIN'S CAP NUMBERS
2010 (uncapped) = $17.078 million
2011 = $8.54 million
2012 = $1.15 million
2013 = $6.732 million
2014 = $5.5 million
2015 = $6.888 million
2016 = $11.38 million


Had we used the *same* salary structure for the first three years that the Packers used without penalty, these would have been Austin's cap numbers --

2010 (uncapped) = $14.51 million
2011 = $6.782 million (including a $1.217 million incentive that would have been wiped out before the 2011 season and never charged)
2012 = $6.692 million
2013 = $6.732 million
2014 = $5.5 million
2015 = $6.888 million
2016 = $11.38 million


Had we used this contract structure, our cap commitment for 2011 would be $2.568 million more than it is right now, but we would *not* be getting penalized $10 million, we *would* be getting a $1.24 million credit from the league, and 28 other teams would have $360,000 less cap room than they have right now.

This is total bush league, 2 years after the fact the league has their panties in a bunch over a contract that they themselves approved!

At least we are getting off with a manageable $10 mill hit, the poor Skins are getting raped. I guess Daniel Snyder pissed in somebody's Wheaties.....lol