Bruce Irvin vs D.Ware Combine/Stats

[SDogo]

Originally Posted by MidEastBeastL337

Good study

There are a few players who could go at the top of Round 1 but may be there for us in the 2nd I like better. Both are more NFL ready now but neither has the ceiling Irvin has. At the same time, both are high character guys that can be putting up 10 sacks for the next 2 years before Irvin is ready if he gets to that point.

Andre Branch from Clemson, he has eliminated all doubt he can make the switch to the 3-4 OLB with a great draft process. Branch is one of my favorite prospects in this draft.

Vinny Curry from Marshall, not as athletic as Branch and a little raw but has more room to grow. I think there will be some transitional pains if he goes to a 3-4 team but he will be able to come in and play in the opponents backfield from Day 1.

[cowboysooner]

It seems the Cowboys really like Spencer, and if they want to keep him Irvin is the perfect player for Dallas. He could play as a wide 9 defensive end in nickle and be moved around by Rob in some sub packages. If he never develops the ability to set the edge, then don't ever have him set the edge. Dallas would be one of very few teams set up to do this. His value to us would be higher than most.

Spencer beat about 3 right tackles last year for sacks. One of those was when he was pushed 14 yards up field but Ware flushed a slow qb out of a pocket. If we add a good 5 technique in the first and Irvin in the late 2nd early 3rd, we have transformed our team.

The 2 best defenses last year were San Fran and Pittsburgh. Both of them are led by their front 7. We would suddenly have a catalytic front seven that is just a notch below. Our offense is better than either and we would be in a very good position to compete with the best teams in the league. Teams had an inordinate amount of success on Dallas picking on Newman, James/Brooking, and sometimes Elam in coverage. We have gotten ourselves to average or better at each of those spots, so the arrow is pointing up.

[fifaguy]

What are the odds of landing Irvin? And what round would we have to pull the trigger to get him? I have seen mocks wanting him in the 2nd as well as the 3rd round...

[BAT]

Originally Posted by cowboysooner

It seems the Cowboys really like Spencer, and if they want to keep him Irvin is the perfect player for Dallas. He could play as a wide 9 defensive end in nickle and be moved around by Rob in some sub packages. If he never develops the ability to set the edge, then don't ever have him set the edge. Dallas would be one of very few teams set up to do this. His value to us would be higher than most.

Spencer beat about 3 right tackles last year for sacks. One of those was when he was pushed 14 yards up field but Ware flushed a slow qb out of a pocket. If we add a good 5 technique in the first and Irvin in the late 2nd early 3rd, we have transformed our team.

[View Full Quote]The 2 best defenses last year were San Fran and Pittsburgh. Both of them are led by their front 7. We would suddenly have a catalytic front seven that is just a notch below. Our offense is better than either and we would be in a very good position to compete with the best teams in the league. Teams had an inordinate amount of success on Dallas picking on Newman, James/Brooking, and sometimes Elam in coverage. We have gotten ourselves to average or better at each of those spots, so the arrow is pointing up.

I wholeheartedly agree. Using Irvin like the 9ers used Aldon Smith is a no-brainer. Cowboys need more pass rushers, and Irvin is the most natural pass rusher in entire draft.

[Aliencowboy]

Andre Branch and Curry are not in the same quality as B.Irvin.

SDogo I'm a big fan of your posts, but I disagree about B.Irvin.

I've watched about 4 games of video, and I see a high motor, explosive player. He uses his hands well, and he has good reach. I saw him driving tackles back on every play when he engaged them. I saw him chasing plays down from behind on the other side of the field FF. DWare weighted 251 coming in to the league. B.Irvin is 245 and an inch shorter. Very similar in their frame. B.Irvin could use some more moves, but he did very well with the three that he had. He could be off the board by the time we pick.

Originally Posted by SDogo

There are a few players who could go at the top of Round 1 but may be there for us in the 2nd I like better. Both are more NFL ready now but neither has the ceiling Irvin has. At the same time, both are high character guys that can be putting up 10 sacks for the next 2 years before Irvin is ready if he gets to that point.

Andre Branch from Clemson, he has eliminated all doubt he can make the switch to the 3-4 OLB with a great draft process. Branch is one of my favorite prospects in this draft.

Vinny Curry from Marshall, not as athletic as Branch and a little raw but has more room to grow. I think there will be some transitional pains if he goes to a 3-4 team but he will be able to come in and play in the opponents backfield from Day 1.

[Eskimo]

Originally Posted by Aliencowboy

Andre Branch and Curry are not in the same quality as B.Irvin.

SDogo I'm a big fan of your posts, but I disagree about B.Irvin.

I've watched about 4 games of video, and I see a high motor, explosive player. He uses his hands well, and he has good reach. I saw him driving tackles back on every play when he engaged them. I saw him chasing plays down from behind on the other side of the field FF. DWare weighted 251 coming in to the league. B.Irvin is 245 and an inch shorter. Very similar in their frame. B.Irvin could use some more moves, but he did very well with the three that he had. He could be off the board by the time we pick.

You can teach pass rush moves and you can teach a player how to use their arms, body and legs to set an edge in rush defense.

You cannot teach his explosiveness, arm length, ability to flatten and ability to feel how to get around an OT. This guy is so explosive off the snap and he will be going against RTs who will be left on an island because Ware is on the other side.

I will be shocked if he gets out there in the nickel and doesn't put up 6 sacks as a rookie. He just has the knack.

You can teach him the other stuff. He is a hard worker and a good kid who changed his life after falling off the tracks - got his GED and went back to college after gangbanging. That shows a lot of character and will give him a maturity that most other kids will not have.

I don't believe there is any way he lasts until the 3rd round. I really hope he falls to our 2nd round pick and I really hope we pull the trigger. We need a player like this to help Ware and extend his career by drawing away some double teams.

[SDogo]

Originally Posted by Aliencowboy

Andre Branch and Curry are not in the same quality as B.Irvin.

SDogo I'm a big fan of your posts, but I disagree about B.Irvin.

I've watched about 4 games of video, and I see a high motor, explosive player. He uses his hands well, and he has good reach. I saw him driving tackles back on every play when he engaged them. I saw him chasing plays down from behind on the other side of the field FF. DWare weighted 251 coming in to the league. B.Irvin is 245 and an inch shorter. Very similar in their frame. B.Irvin could use some more moves, but he did very well with the three that he had. He could be off the board by the time we pick.

We can disagree, D. Ware had many more weapons in his arsenal and was MUCH stronger then Irvin. He also did not come with the baggage.

As far as Branch, MANY, MANY Gm's disagree with you and will become evident when Branch is chosen mid to late first.

[cowboysooner]

Branch or Curry could replace Spencer. Irvin is an additional weapon/ complimentary player.

[Aliencowboy]

Thanks for handling our disagreeing with grace and maturity. (not sarcastic)

Originally Posted by SDogo

We can disagree, D. Ware had many more weapons in his arsenal and was MUCH stronger then Irvin. He also did not come with the baggage.

As far as Branch, MANY, MANY Gm's disagree with you and will become evident when Branch is chosen mid to late first.

[SDogo]

Originally Posted by Aliencowboy

Thanks for handling our disagreeing with grace and maturity. (not sarcastic)

ah hell, we could both find a small ship full of people that agree with our sides. Their is no science to it. There is still a chance we can both be wrong and he puts us Spencer like numbers his whole career.

[gimmesix]

Originally Posted by SDogo

There are a few players who could go at the top of Round 1 but may be there for us in the 2nd I like better. Both are more NFL ready now but neither has the ceiling Irvin has. At the same time, both are high character guys that can be putting up 10 sacks for the next 2 years before Irvin is ready if he gets to that point.

Andre Branch from Clemson, he has eliminated all doubt he can make the switch to the 3-4 OLB with a great draft process. Branch is one of my favorite prospects in this draft.

Vinny Curry from Marshall, not as athletic as Branch and a little raw but has more room to grow. I think there will be some transitional pains if he goes to a 3-4 team but he will be able to come in and play in the opponents backfield from Day 1.

I wouldn't mind Jake Bequette in the third round. High-motor player who knows how to use what he's got.

EDIT Actually, I'm not sure when Bequette is projected to go. I assume it's around the third round.

[Questfor6]

Watched this guy for two years as a WVU fan & I can tell you that the way he was used was a terrible situation but he made the most of it. He might of been better off keeping with his original commitment to Arizona St & playing more of a pro-style D, but Burfict prolly would have rubbed off on him.

His first year he got used kind of like Aldon Smith was used last year & just played on passing downs. Most schools didn't really prepare for him, but this pass season I think he played at about 230-235 and on run downs he just got destroyed. So about half-way through the season they went back to him just playing on passing downs & his effectiveness increased.

Even though I'm a mountaineer fan I'll tell ya he's not worth drafting until the 3-4th round because he's probably never going to be a every-down player (although I hope I'm wrong). Hopefully McCellain is around at 45 or somewhere close where we can trade up & snag him, reminds of Brooks Reed from last year.

[CATCH17]

D Ware is such a FREAK. Wow those numbers are sick.