4-3 will be disaster if Lee and Carter don't do well

[TheFinisher]

Originally Posted by hra8700

Agree. I think everyone wants lee at middle because of the history and importance in other 4-3 systems, but in Kiffins system a lot of responsibility is taken away from the MLB and he has to play a deep zone in coverage which is absolutely not lee's skillet and is great for Bruce carter. People love carter on the weak side because of speed but that position is all about instincts and in coverage it's all about reading the qb's eyes which is what lee is great at.

Yup, we're on the same page.

They fit it to a T.

[justbob]

Originally Posted by hra8700

Agree. I think everyone wants lee at middle because of the history and importance in other 4-3 systems, but in Kiffins system a lot of responsibility is taken away from the MLB and he has to play a deep zone in coverage which is absolutely not lee's skillet and is great for Bruce carter. People love carter on the weak side because of speed but that position is all about instincts and in coverage it's all about reading the qb's eyes which is what lee is great at.

Thanks to you and the Finisher for the education...great info

[PAINFROMUKRAINE]

Lee is injury-prone so I am not sure if he can Thrive for 16 games. I love Lee's playmaking ability but his health issues will possibly haunt us. Plan B better be a decent backup for Lee.

[ykc]

Fromthe knee jerk reaction from JJ, it looks like either he realized or some told him that the rash of injuries we had on defense this year is because we don't have proper players to play 3-4. so to fit current players - he is swithcing to 4-3

[Yoshimitsu]

Originally Posted by PAINFROMUKRAINE

Lee is injury-prone so I am not sure if he can Thrive for 16 games. I love Lee's playmaking ability but his health issues will possibly haunt us. Plan B better be a decent backup for Lee.

In a 4-3 he's more protected than he is in a 3-4 that we ran because of our lack of a true 0 tech NT.

[CowboysYanksLakers]

What in the world??? May Sean Lee and Bruce Carter could play in ANY scheme... Those two will be the least of my concern in a new 4-3 system.

[Bowdown27]

I always liked the 4-3 better and think lee and carter would flourish in that system.

[Risen Star]

Originally Posted by zrinkill

So would the 3-4.

As evident this year.

Yeah, I don't get the point. What defense wouldn't be bad if their best players struggle in it?

[TheFinisher]

Originally Posted by justbob

Thanks to you and the Finisher for the education...great info

No problem.

[StanleySpadowski]

Originally Posted by hra8700

Agree. I think everyone wants lee at middle because of the history and importance in other 4-3 systems, but in Kiffins system a lot of responsibility is taken away from the MLB and he has to play a deep zone in coverage which is absolutely not lee's skillet and is great for Bruce carter. People love carter on the weak side because of speed but that position is all about instincts and in coverage it's all about reading the qb's eyes which is what lee is great at.

How can you say that deep zone responsibility isn't in Lee's skillset when that's what he excelled at in college as he played primarily in a Cover-2 throughout his career.

[Marktui]

Originally Posted by hra8700

Agree. I think everyone wants lee at middle because of the history and importance in other 4-3 systems, but in Kiffins system a lot of responsibility is taken away from the MLB and he has to play a deep zone in coverage which is absolutely not lee's skillet and is great for Bruce carter. People love carter on the weak side because of speed but that position is all about instincts and in coverage it's all about reading the qb's eyes which is what lee is great at.

I think that we will not run a true cover two scheme. Carr and Mo are not strong zone corners. Although we may use it at times, I believe Kiffin would try and tailor it for now with what is here.

It's also not a given that Lee would be the mike. Brooks made a lot of plays being the will, which could be Lee's position. Carter is the more physical player so he would be better suited to be the mike. Either way with the extra down d lineman neither Lee or Carter will be asked to take on guards all the time.

Does this make Rat the under 3 technique whose responsible for penetrating and chasing down plays?

[CowboysFaninDC]

Originally Posted by JoeyBoy718

The strength of our defense is our 2 linebackers (Lee and Carter) who are young and gifted and have the potential to be the best linebacker duo in the NFL. The secondary will be the secondary regardless of 3-4 or 4-3. And as good as guys like Ware, Spencer and Ratliff are/were, you don't build around guys of their age. My point is, I have no problem with the possible switch to 4-3, but it will be a major disaster if it takes away from the potential of Lee and Carter. If you're fortunate enough to land two guys of their caliber, you better not screw it up. So let's hope they're just as good in a 4-3 as they were in a 3-4.

my concern is not those 2. I think Lee will be fine as most of his responsibilities will be the same. Carter should be fine as WLB, and may infact get more opportunities to get to the QB as a blitzer. he is not a good fit for SOLB spot. that's my concern. the other option, if they don't feel they have their guy at SOLB spot is they may move Carter to that spot, and he would be good covering the TEs from there, but would he hold up against the run. then Butler might be the WLB candidate.

the problem is now, we lose a whole year and some draft picks that don't fit. what do you do with Wilbur? and we don't have enough DL men. having spencer and ware on the line, who would be considered light, would make our run defense vunerable.

spencer is also light as a DE if that's thought of where they might fit him. he is good against the run as a OLB in 3-4, but as DE he will probably struggle a bit.

and its a lot harder to find 4-3 DEs that can rush the passer than 3-4 OLBs that can rush

[TheCoolFan]

It's not like it's such a drastic change for these guys! Most LBs play 4-3 their entire careers, including high school and college. It's only when they get to certain college teams or the NFL that they have to make an adjustment to a 3-4

[TheFinisher]

Originally Posted by StanleySpadowski

How can you say that deep zone responsibility isn't in Lee's skillset when that's what he excelled at in college as he played primarily in a Cover-2 throughout his career.

Cover-2 and Tampa 2 are much different from a MLB standpoint.

In a pure cover-2, your safeties are responsible for splitting half the field. A true 2-deep look. The Mike has the underneath middle but will pass off vertical routes to the safties.

In a Tampa-2, which Lee has not been in, it's more of a 3-Deep coverage. Those safeties still split the field, but are shaded towards the boundary to protect better against those vertical routes near the sideline. To make up for the safeties being shaded and to protect the middle of the field, the Mike's zone is expanded deeper. He is now the main defender against those inside vertical routes from slot receivers or TEs.

It's hard to explain over a messageboard, wish there was some kind of virtual chalkboard lol, but bottom line is you want the better athlete playing Mike. He has to be able to move, flip his hips, track the ball and break on it like a Safety.

[TheFinisher]

Originally Posted by Marktui

I think that we will not run a true cover two scheme. Carr and Mo are not strong zone corners. Although we may use it at times, I believe Kiffin would try and tailor it for now with what is here.

It's also not a given that Lee would be the mike. Brooks made a lot of plays being the will, which could be Lee's position. Carter is the more physical player so he would be better suited to be the mike. Either way with the extra down d lineman neither Lee or Carter will be asked to take on guards all the time.

Does this make Rat the under 3 technique whose responsible for penetrating and chasing down plays?

Carr and Mo can play in the cover 2, and be pretty damn good at it. We can still utilize their press skills with press bail techniques, but having them play off the ball will increase the likelihood of turnovers... reading the QB and making plays on the ball were 2 of Mo's strongest assests as a prospect. And Carr is a big physical corner who played in a LOT of press bail cover 2 in KC under Romeo Crennel, he will fit in just fine as a strong side guy who helps support the run.