The Unofficial 2005 Draft Sour Grapes Post

[ndanger]

Originally Posted by Joe a Cowboys fan

Ridicule me if you will but I have a problem with this draft and it's heavy emphasis on defence. As exibit A I give you the Washington Redskins who by the end of last season did fairly well as a defensive team stats wise but lacked any kind of effective offence. In short the O couldn't score when the game was on the line. (As a short dig they did lots to fix that with both their first picks too)

[View Full Quote]IMO Dallas had both a ball controll defence and offence last year. A pretty good defence that could stop the run but had trouble with any decent passing team we played. Coupled with an offence that could run so long as we only minimally expected the passing offence to contribute a completion every three downs or four downs. To me this appeared to indicate both the offence and the defence needed some help. In both cases we needed to play error free penalty free football just to try and keep things close and some how expect the runing game or a field goal to produce points in the final moments to win the game.

Enter exibit B. Dallas has drafted defence with all it's first day picks. I feel the first day picks represent our best chance to get any meaningful game play from any of our draftees. We picked a DE, a DE/LB and a LB. This is a tremendous draft for our defence that might improve our pass defence by pressuring the QB, something we haven't done since the mid 90s effectively. But can our defence stop opposing offences sufficiently that our offence can win by scoring 20 points or less. Or ar we expecting a Reven type D that can score at regular intervals. Are we now a Chicago Bears SB team or a Ravens SB team that can shut down our opponents to 14 points or less and is our offence even as good as those two SB teams and capable of scoring 14 points or more?

So I will leave it at this, this was a good D draft. It should keep us in more games this year. But what will we do to win more games and by this I simply mean score more points than the other guys. What is Bill planing on doing to improve our offensive scoring. Is Drew by himself sufficient to goose our scoring or at least decrease interceptions and poor throws? Can we depend on our two best WRs to make it through the season uninjured and beat double teams to make receptions. I only said receptions because I see our best scorers as being Witten and Jones again this year. It's a cinch neither top two WR will get any faster this year. Watching our depth at WR late in the season I didn't see any of them step up their play given a chance. We did nothing in the draft to change this and few of the June cuts FAs will likely greatly improve out offence. It would be nice if we could find a FA FS that can carry us through the season. A FA WR that can do so is 50/50 at best as far as I can see from here at the moment.

Ok I feel much better, I can now appreciate the improvement in the D guilt free now having vented about the draft and pretty much put any offensive short coming concerns behind me until late in December. What do the rest of you think, do I have a valid concern here or not?

Dammit Man learn how to spell offense and when you get that down,learn how to spell defense.It's easy to see why your not running a football team!

[Wolverine]

I think we had a great draft. I would give it a grade of A+

We got 2 freaks in the 1st round.

We got a steal in Burnett who fell from the 1st round. If he woulda been gone I think we woulda traded down but no way you pass on him and we did the smart thing and drafted him.

We got a real good deal in RB Barber. Just to let you in his scoutin report they said he should be a quality STARTER!


Cantry was listed by Mel Kiper as one of the top 5 Day 2 gems. The only reason he wasnt gone by late 1st round early 2nd round was cuz of some injuries. Best part is he is gonna be fine and ready by camp.


Pettiti if he can lose some friggin weight has everything it takes to be a real good startin OT.


We filled alota holes today and maybe even got a big steal at OT.



I just hope for the day when we actually use a 1st round on a WR. My guess is that we start lookin for WR around the 5th round next year since this team is never interested in gettin a real WR with a high draft pick.

[blindzebra]

Originally Posted by ndanger

Dammit Man learn how to spell offense and when you get that down,learn how to spell defense.It's easy to see why your not running a football team!

You are is you're not your.

[ndanger]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

You are is you're not your.

Thank you and it's easy to see why do not run a football team as well.Dammit Man!!

[JackMagist]

Originally Posted by StonetheCrow77

Bledsoe is not more mobile then Vinny... where in the world did you get that??? He has arm is more live than Vinny's and he should stay healthier... but, Vinny can certainly move better than Mr. Pocket Passer...

I won't argue the mobility issue. However, Bledsoe is still a significant upgrade because hsi arm is still young enough to throw the ball in the 4th quarter. After the 4th or 5th game of the season Vinny could no longer keep it up for a full game. His arm got weak in the second half and by the end of the game it was dead. Vinny just can't hold up for a full game for more than 3 or 4 in a row; Bledsoe can still hold up and throw with authority late in the game.

[Joe a Cowboys fan]

Originally Posted by ROYDESTROY

We are not done in FA so these comments are a bit premature on offense and quite foolish to me with regard to Bill. Bill had limited tools last year with roster and injuries..the same "play calls" you assume he could not make were the same ones that won him 2 SBs and a great winning % overall in the NFL.

Who are the "Offensive experts in your opinion?

I view this as lousy cheap shot of your perception and not in reality. IMO

Hmmnnn, since I was commenting about this draft primarily and those FAs who moved before the draft I cannot see how they were premature. June FA signings rarely transform a team although thy can add a final piece.

My comments about Bill are my own and freely expressed. I do worry that he will be here at least another 2 years after this one and I hope he stays. Bill had a limmited roster last year by his own choice, I have always thought Jerry willing to do whatever he could by spending if it made the Boys a better team.

What Offensive experts are you reffering to, Sean Payton? I know it isn't me, I am just a fan.

I have great respect for Bill. His record compares favorably with Dallas's two Superbowl coaches Tom and Jimmy. As this has been a different team from his New York teams with the Gints and Jets and his New England teams I expect he does what he did with them. Change what he does based on who he has and how they are doing at any given point. He did vary his play calling depending on who his personal were. Both then and now. Are you saying you expect him to transform Dallas into a mirror of the Giants of the early 90s?

I am capable of a cheap shot but not with respect to the Cowboys, or at least very rarely. I do not understand why you would catagorize anything in my post as a lousy cheap shot. It certainly is my perception at this point in the season. It might even be wrong. But it was made with the best of intentions. There are several very knowledgeable posters here and hopefully at some point they will post their opinions and I expect to learn something from what they post. Or one of the mods will bust on me. Even that will be informative given the quality of our mods.

[JackMagist]

Chack back Joe...I don't think Roy was responding to your post; he was responding to LaTunaNostra

[StonetheCrow77]

Originally Posted by JackMagist

I won't argue the mobility issue. However, Bledsoe is still a significant upgrade because hsi arm is still young enough to throw the ball in the 4th quarter. After the 4th or 5th game of the season Vinny could no longer keep it up for a full game. His arm got weak in the second half and by the end of the game it was dead. Vinny just can't hold up for a full game for more than 3 or 4 in a row; Bledsoe can still hold up and throw with authority late in the game.

Absolutely agreed... Bledsoe should be an upgrade... just wanted to point out that Drew is a much different QB than Vinny...

[LaTunaNostra]

Originally Posted by Joe a Cowboys fan

After the state of our O my greatest concern is how long will our window of opportunity with Bill will last. Even if I don't get it I believe he does and I will see what I am missing eventually. Maybe having the start of the season this year have a successful draft from his perspective will keep him here the full contract. I truely hope so. Tom Landrys tenure spoiled us beyond belief and ever since coaching changes or even the possibility fill me with dread.

Joe, one more thing then I will leave off badgering you.

I don't think "window of opportunity" applies to the Parcells tenure. That term used to get used to describe a period of time a team or unit was felt to have at peak competitveness before it lost key players thru age or free agency. Like the Phins D in the Jimmuh and Wanny post-Marino years....how much time could the Miami defense carry the O before the O was brought up to speed and a ring was won. Never happened.

For a coach a "window" could apply - such as the one Jon Gruden had when he took over in Tampa. How long could Dungy's D hold up, before age and cap hell kicked in, and how long would it take to get sufficient offense to win it all. Well, that window was open for one year, and Gruden managed to exploit it well.

But Bill in Dallas was never in anything like that situation. It was more like his stint with the the Jets...rebuilding a roster suffering from years of poor drafts and other bad decisions, and modernizing the business approach in general. Building a winning attitude in the playerr and weeding out incompetents at every level. The Cowboys certainly had more and much more recent rings, but really, the Jets actually had considerable more talent in 97 when Tuna took over. The Cowboys also had a very involved owner who had to change his ways to regain competitiveness, had to fight both human nature and his own formerly very successful management style. The job here was actually tougher...not re-righting a ship for an absentee sickly old man qho had given him complete authority as in NY, but working day to day with a self made highly successful entrepreneur who himself knew he had to change or stay mired in the division cellar.

The window for Dallas imo was the one involving Jerry ...how long would it take for him to go from wildcatter to corporate gray suit. Really, it's all about the organization and how it would or would not meet the challenge of a changing model of success.

The teams who are doing it the 'rightest' today, like the Pats and Eagles, don't seem to have window concerns. Teams come from nowhere in one season and then fall off...and just a few remain longer term competitive. The organizations that are well run, have sound philosophies and managememt styles, stress character, team work, don't get overly sentimental over personnel, don't overpay, run sound scouting and personnel departments...they don't seem to have windows of opportunity dictated by players or even future HOF coaches.

The only window seem to be closed is on franchises which don't buy into the no-waste, streamlined, meritocracy-based front offices. Windows don't seem to close on the organizations that know what they're doing.

Tuna could get the Cowboys a ring, one ring, but if the managerial style and philosophy hasn't modernized enough, that is all it will be. I really think Jerry is moving in the direction of long term competiveness in the 21st century, he has acknowledged it can't be done like it was in the early 1990's, and has proven it with the recent drafts and overall professionalism. JJ may still want, temperamentally, to wheel and deal, spend, spend, spend, and overpay, but he is not succumbing to every whim and fancy. He is not hiring, or keeping less than competent cronies. He remains compassionate and loyal to players who performed for him, but he is not losing the farm for old time's sake. He spread some money around this offseason, but he did not do a Daniel Snyder. And the son, Stephen, apparently has both feet firmly grounded.

The next HC might not have Bill's credentials, but I doubt he will be walking into the feudal lord of the fiefdom atmosphere that Jerry once reigned over. I kinda doubt JJ will backtrack now, even if he doesn't get a ring with Bill.

I think the window remains open far longer than Bill's tenure. Because it is the owner who will know how to keep it open. In the meantime, it is great watching JJ and Bill work together. They have been good for another, as people as well as as professionals.

[Joe a Cowboys fan]

Originally Posted by ndanger

Dammit Man learn how to spell offense and when you get that down,learn how to spell defense.It's easy to see why your not running a football team!

Mea culpa, spell check has often been my saving grace. I can think of easier reasons why I am not runing a football team but I will just hang on to them another 20 or 30 years. By then I will probably not remember why this is important in any case.

[DWAREZ]

Originally Posted by Joe a Cowboys fan

Hmmnnn, since I was commenting about this draft primarily and those FAs who moved before the draft I cannot see how they were premature. June FA signings rarely transform a team although thy can add a final piece.

My comments about Bill are my own and freely expressed. I do worry that he will be here at least another 2 years after this one and I hope he stays. Bill had a limmited roster last year by his own choice, I have always thought Jerry willing to do whatever he could by spending if it made the Boys a better team.

What Offensive experts are you reffering to, Sean Payton? I know it isn't me, I am just a fan.

[View Full Quote]I have great respect for Bill. His record compares favorably with Dallas's two Superbowl coaches Tom and Jimmy. As this has been a different team from his New York teams with the Gints and Jets and his New England teams I expect he does what he did with them. Change what he does based on who he has and how they are doing at any given point. He did vary his play calling depending on who his personal were. Both then and now. Are you saying you expect him to transform Dallas into a mirror of the Giants of the early 90s?

I am capable of a cheap shot but not with respect to the Cowboys, or at least very rarely. I do not understand why you would catagorize anything in my post as a lousy cheap shot. It certainly is my perception at this point in the season. It might even be wrong. But it was made with the best of intentions. There are several very knowledgeable posters here and hopefully at some point they will post their opinions and I expect to learn something from what they post. Or one of the mods will bust on me. Even that will be informative given the quality of our mods.

First, none of my comments were to you and you apparently did not do a close read of the reply.

With Regards to the Offense..we do not need any deal breaker to transform the team...we need to simply get healthy as we have in my understanding and by adding the new RB and OT the depth is helpful.

The added peices to be left is FS on defense possibly in FA and WR/OT which could be added possibly in FA. A "BIG NAME" is not needed simply final peices to potential weaknesses or for depth purposes. Peter Warrick could be cut by the Bengals and others may be available at WR.

In addition, Terry once he has healed may be a possibility at RT...Jerry was very clear to say yesterday that they were not done in FA. Plus, some FA rookie talent may be found as well....soo.....just be happy with an outstanding draft...something we have not had in a long while.

We cannot address everything in one draft which is quite unreasonable considering how poor the team and more acutely the defense was last year

[Joe a Cowboys fan]

Originally Posted by LaTunaNostra

Joe, one more thing then I will leave off badgering you.

I don't think "window of opportunity" applies to the Parcells tenure. That term used to get used to describe a period of time a team or unit was felt to have at peak competitveness before it lost key players thru age or free agency. Like the Phins D in the Jimmuh and Wanny post-Marino years....how much time could the Miami defense carry the O before the O was brought up to speed and a ring was won. Never happened.

For a coach a "window" could apply - such as the one Jon Gruden had when he took over in Tampa. How long could Dungy's D hold up, before age and cap hell kicked in, and how long would it take to get sufficient offense to win it all. Well, that window was open for one year, and Gruden managed to exploit it well.

[View Full Quote]But Bill in Dallas was never in anything like that situation. It was more like his stint with the the Jets...rebuilding a roster suffering from years of poor drafts and other bad decisions, and modernizing the business approach in general. Building a winning attitude in the playerr and weeding out incompetents at every level. The Cowboys certainly had more and much more recent rings, but really, the Jets actually had considerable more talent in 97 when Tuna took over. The Cowboys also had a very involved owner who had to change his ways to regain competitiveness, had to fight both human nature and his own formerly very successful management style. The job here was actually tougher...not re-righting a ship for an absentee sickly old man qho had given him complete authority as in NY, but working day to day with a self made highly successful entrepreneur who himself knew he had to change or stay mired in the division cellar.

The window for Dallas imo was the one involving Jerry ...how long would it take for him to go from wildcatter to corporate gray suit. Really, it's all about the organization and how it would or would not meet the challenge of a changing model of success.

The teams who are doing it the 'rightest' today, like the Pats and Eagles, don't seem to have window concerns. Teams come from nowhere in one season and then fall off...and just a few remain longer term competitive. The organizations that are well run, have sound philosophies and managememt styles, stress character, team work, don't get overly sentimental over personnel, don't overpay, run sound scouting and personnel departments...they don't seem to have windows of opportunity dictated by players or even future HOF coaches.

The only window seem to be closed is on franchises which don't buy into the no-waste, streamlined, meritocracy-based front offices. Windows don't seem to close on the organizations that know what they're doing.

Tuna could get the Cowboys a ring, one ring, but if the managerial style and philosophy hasn't modernized enough, that is all it will be. I really think Jerry is moving in the direction of long term competiveness in the 21st century, he has acknowledged it can't be done like it was in the early 1990's, and has proven it with the recent drafts and overall professionalism. JJ may still want, temperamentally, to wheel and deal, spend, spend, spend, and overpay, but he is not succumbing to every whim and fancy. He is not hiring, or keeping less than competent cronies. He remains compassionate and loyal to players who performed for him, but he is not losing the farm for old time's sake. He spread some money around this offseason, but he did not do a Daniel Snyder. And the son, Stephen, apparently has both feet firmly grounded.

The next HC might not have Bill's credentials, but I doubt he will be walking into the feudal lord of the fiefdom atmosphere that Jerry once reigned over. I kinda doubt JJ will backtrack now, even if he doesn't get a ring with Bill.

I think the window remains open far longer than Bill's tenure. Because it is the owner who will know how to keep it open. In the meantime, it is great watching JJ and Bill work together. They have been good for another, as people as well as as professionals.

Maybe tenure was a poor choice of words. My concern was how long Bill stays with us and the answer is however long he decides he wants to be here, Jerry willing. There is great strength in continuity of authority. Bill is here because he got bored being retired from a job that challenged him. He is also a coach with enough professional standing to establish with Jerry that he needs to do his job as he see's it. The same as Joe Gibbs with Danny. I just hope he stays challenged enough to hang around awhile.

[Hollywood Henderson]

Yes Latuna,

Expect Parcells to spend 90% of the time tweaking & coaching HIS new 3-4 this year...

The offense will be in fine shape. Sure we could use youth at WR, but fine WR's come out every year. So look for new offensive weapons next year...

We played the draft well this year and the D is setup very well with the exception of FS, although I do expect Hunter to be the guy there...

[BEASToftheEAST]

So let me guess, you're a youngster who is too young to remember the Parcells teams of the 80's and 90's who who championships with offensive legends such as Jeff Hostetller and Mcconkey. Defense wins, or were you not a fan just two seasons ago?

[LaTunaNostra]

Originally Posted by ROYDESTROY

We are not done in FA so these comments are a bit premature on offense and quite foolish to me with regard to Bill. Bill had limited tools last year with roster and injuries..the same "play calls" you assume he could not make were the same ones that won him 2 SBs and a great winning % overall in the NFL.

Who are the "Offensive experts in your opinion?

I view this as lousy cheap shot of your perception and not in reality. IMO

Haha, Roy.

As a dedicated Tuna Bootlicker of over two decades now, it is with great pleasure that I acknowledge having cheap-shotted my hero.

Yes, I want an offensive EXPERT, or at least a professionally trained and half way experienced OC looking down at that game card on game day, (you know that laminated list of options that Chris Collingsworth said has GLENN bolded at the top) and making a decision.

Tuna's offenses may have held their own two decades back, but even then, he was often enough being made mincemeat out of by the Bill Walshes..he only beat the Joe Gibbses with his defense...and back then, before defenses got so much more complex, you could put your bus driving Simms and your never say die Bavaros out there and stand a chance.

Tuna won with D. His Os were competent, never state of the art. And he did not play at OC,. He let professional play designers, play callers and offensive strategists do their jobs.

There are OCs who Tuna loves, like his buddy Dan Henning in Carolina. It was Coach Henning who Bill had wanted to be his OC here, and if Dan had come aboard, Tuna'd be leaving it ALL up to him. Dan is no Mike Martz, but he's a pro from the offensive side of the ball, which Tuna AIN'T. The only time I recall Bill getting into offensive game planning was late 99 in NY, when he took the play calling duties away from uhh, Charlie Weis, in a "buck stops here" effort to stop some bleeding. A mixed result, for sure.

What happened in Dallas was, I think, a combination of it's being Zim's successful (4-3) D and Bill not wanting to tread on it too heavily. Tuna preferred to diddle around with the O under Quincy and VT than infringe on Zimmy. Now Zim has had a poor year, he'll get meddled with aplenty. Plus Sean wasn't in the position to throw any weight around, seeing how he had recently been demoted from playcalling by Jim Fassel. Dan Henning would have told his buddy to go play with his linebackers.

And that is exactly what I hope Tuna does this year - goes and plays with his linebackers. And lets the guy who designs the plays, call them.

One good thing tho...Belichicken in the wake of Weis's leaving seems primed to make the same mistake in NE. That "I wanna be the total coach like in the days of Paul Brown" thang might be the only thing can take that bastage down.