Tony Dungy says 'Boys are two drafts from having right personnel for Kiffin's system

[stasheroo]

Originally Posted by a_minimalist

Yes, I'm 99% sure he will. Jerry has made it very clear he's behind Garrett for the long haul.

[View Full Quote]My opinion is that after two more years you evaluate. Even then it's not guaranteed. But that's when you can start to get a full picture of his body of work in regard to changing an organization around at its core. You can evaluate all of the moves, philosophies, principles or whatever you want to call it that he has set in place. A lot of the change this organization needs is buried in the details. It has less to do with players and more to do with structure and player management. These details don't matter to 99% of fans because all they see are wins and losses. They don't want to see the process. The dreaded word fans despise because it actually asks them to be patient and let it play out. They in turn whine and cry and call for heads. Turning a franchise that has been failing for 17 years around in 3 years, one of which was as interim HC isn't possible -- no matter how many times you tell yourself it is.

I'll be waiting for you to tell me how your opinion is better than my opinion.

I won't do that.

You can have your opinion, I'll have mine.

[a_minimalist]

Originally Posted by stasheroo

I won't do that.

You can have your opinion, I'll have mine.

That's all anyone should ask for on here. I appreciate that.

[Yakuza Rich]

It's difficult to buy too much into Dungy given how awful his defenses were in Indianapolis, as noticed by how the Colts went from perennial division winner with Peyton Manning, to 2-14 without him. And this year they were arguably the worst team statistically to ever make the playoffs.

I actually think Crawford could play SDE. Maybe Spencer as well (although he's likely gone). Albright is a perfect fit at the SAM in a the Cover 2, tall and can cover TE's and RB's in short zone. WE could probably switch Carter and Lee to any spot on the LB position. Ratliff is perfect for the 3-gap. We don't have a 1-gap, although neither do the Lions and they make it work.







YR

[Wolfpack]

By the time Jerry gets the people for the Tampa 2 (again) he will have fired this set of coaches anyway and will be running some other type of defense. 5 schemes in 10 years means you are always behind and can never build correctly. But it helps with the sizzle.

[DFWJC]

Originally Posted by InmanRoshi

If Dungy doesn't think Sean Lee and Bruce Carter are ideal for the 4-3, he's been sniffing Dan Patrick's hair gell.

I'm sure Dungy has no issue with those two players.

But Gosselin wote an article in the DMN today and specifically mentioned the WLB position. He also mentioned DT and CB. We already know we have needs at Safety, whether we were in a 4-3 or 3-4...so nothing new there. I do think Church may do well at SS though.

Anyway, I think Carter is ideal for that position. I always think Gosselin is negative on the Cowboys anyway, so I sent him a simple email saying (1) Carter could play the Will, (2) Ratlif is better suited for this than he is NG in a 3-4 and (3) that Sean Lee will rule.

Here was Gosselin's reply"


Ratliff is 32. The Bucs got rid of Sapp when he was 32. Carter was an inside backer who has to learn a new position. He's better off at SLB over the TE than WLB..."

[wileedog]

Originally Posted by a_minimalist

Turning a franchise that has been failing for 17 years around in 3 years, one of which was as interim HC isn't possible --

Bull. Harbaugh did it in SF.That organization was a mess for almost as long as us.

With parity, the cap, free agency, non-guaranteed contracts and the draft system the league is designed for quick turnarounds. Its doesn't take years to build a juggernaught anymore because there are few if any juggernaughts anymore. You just need to get a QB and some semi-decent talent around him and you are ahead of 50% of the league.

[a_minimalist]

Originally Posted by wileedog

Bull. Harbaugh did it in SF.That organization was a mess for almost as long as us.

With parity, the cap, free agency, non-guaranteed contracts and the draft system the league is designed for quick turnarounds. Its doesn't take years to build a juggernaught anymore because there are few if any juggernaughts anymore. You just need to get a QB and some semi-decent talent around him and you are ahead of 50% of the league.

You're right. It's that easy!

[Redball Express]

Originally Posted by CowboysYanksLakers

We have the right personnel... Ware and Spencer will be a terror off the edge and Ratliff up the middle will be awesome.

Is struggling right now. We all know it. His snaps are going to have to be really monitored and really should just come in on obvious passing downs.

Never on first downs or even 2nds. Just passing snaps.

That would possibly prolong his years. Don't know.

Sean Lee and Carter are solid but them, too. They have injury issues in their careers and will not last 16+ games a season.

So as Kifflin starts to rebuild, he's going to be chained down with some of that. Having said it, I'm sure that with his schemes, defense calling and smart substitution packages..we'll progress rapidly.

Frankly, to hear Tony Dungy speak of the decision to hire speaks volumes. And you have to admire Kiflin for wanting to give it another go at this point in his life.

Congrats. Cowboys fans.

Take a deep breath and let's move on.

RedBaLL ExPreSS

[Randy White]

but I would like to see both Ware and Spencer lined up as 4-3 DE under Kiffin. It would be similar to what Dungy had in Indy with Robert Mathis and Dwight Freeney, only Spencer and Ware are bigger and just as fast/quick.

The risk would be against the run. The Cowboys would have to find a dominant DT in the draft. Hatcher and Sean Lissemore are more than fine as depth for the DT rotation. Crawford REALLY intrigues me as a DT. Perhaps in the Tony Casillas mold. Too bad for Josh Brent because he would have thrived in this defense.

If Spencer is allowed to walk, then I see Crawford as the starting strong side DE.

The rest of the defense is almost there. I see Sean Lee as the obvious MLB. Bruce Carter at the Will ( Weakside ) position and either Dan Connor ( experience ) or Alex Albright ( better player imo ) at the strong side for now. Victor Butler will remain as a pass rushing specialist and will probably be moved back to his natural position of DE. Kyle Wilbur will provide depth at the SAM ( although he could surprise me and become the starter ) or pass rushing DE, along with Butler.

The corners are set. The concern that I have about the safeties is with Church. Sensabaugh will be the starter a FS, but is Church a physical enough player to handle the SS ? In the 4-3, that SS is almost a LB against the run. Eventually I'd like for them to upgrade at FS as well, but that's not an immediate need.

Overall, and as of right now, I see 3 defensive positions that need to be addressed through the draft or FA ( in order ):

1) Defensive tackle
2 a) Strong side LB
2 b) Strong Safety.

[jterrell]

Originally Posted by InmanRoshi

If Dungy doesn't think Sean Lee and Bruce Carter are ideal for the 4-3, he's been sniffing Dan Patrick's hair gell.

And if you think Dungy isn't reading this correctly you're football dumb.

This IS the guy who made Kiffin famous in the first place.

Sean Lee and Bruce Carter will be great in any system provided they are healthy. They are simply great players. They have good size and very good speed. Lee is a tremendously smart player who diagnoses plays well.

The issue is health... and depth ... and having a 3rd LB. But mostly it is asking Ware to control the LT regularly instead of walk around the line of scrimmage essentially blitzing.

We need a dominant 3 technique DT, a plus deep coverage safety who actually makes plays, and depth everywhere for this system. Many of our back ups and spare parts no longer fit at all.

The speed 4-3 is a great system. But it takes time and personnel. Neither of which we have.

We can't even runt he offense we've had for 6 years but we can somehow pick up a new entirely different defense in one off-season with no cap room and 6 mid-round draft picks? Yea, right.

[jterrell]

Originally Posted by Randy White

but I would like to see both Ware and Spencer lined up as 4-3 DE under Kiffin. It would be similar to what Dungy had in Indy with Robert Mathis and Dwight Freeney, only Spencer and Ware are bigger and just as fast/quick.

The risk would be against the run. The Cowboys would have to find a dominant DT in the draft. Hatcher and Sean Lissemore are more than fine as depth for the DT rotation. Crawford REALLY intrigues me as a DT. Perhaps in the Tony Casillas mold. Too bad for Josh Brent because he would have thrived in this defense.

If Spencer is allowed to walk, then I see Crawford as the starting strong side DE.

[View Full Quote]The rest of the defense is almost there. I see Sean Lee as the obvious MLB. Bruce Carter at the Will ( Weakside ) position and either Dan Connor ( experience ) or Alex Albright ( better player imo ) at the strong side for now. Victor Butler will remain as a pass rushing specialist and will probably be moved back to his natural position of DE. Kyle Wilbur will provide depth at the SAM ( although he could surprise me and become the starter ) or pass rushing DE, along with Butler.

The corners are set. The concern that I have about the safeties is with Church. Sensabaugh will be the starter a FS, but is Church a physical enough player to handle the SS ? In the 4-3, that SS is almost a LB against the run. Eventually I'd like for them to upgrade at FS as well, but that's not an immediate need.

Overall, and as of right now, I see 3 defensive positions that need to be addressed through the draft or FA ( in order ):

1) Defensive tackle
2 a) Strong side LB
2 b) Strong Safety.

Th team can not pay Spencer to be a 4-3 SDE. It would be a huge luxury they can't afford.

As to the rest....

Dan Connor is gone. They can't pay him his 3m base in 2013. He isn;t a godo enough player and they don't have the money.

The current lineup is probably:

SDE: Crawford, Butler(Nickle Pass Rusher)//Lissemore could play out here in a pinch or on the goal line.
1TechDT: Ratliff, Spears
3TechDT: Hatcher, Lissemore
WDE: Ware, Butler

Sam: Albright, Wilber
Mike: Lee/Carter
Will: Carter/Lee

We'd like t keep Sims here as a back up to those 2 but he is an expensive piece. We really do not have the current LBs to keep around.

CB1: Carr
CB2: Mo
FS: None
SS: Church

Maybe Matt Johnson can help but he is a mod-round pick with zero NFL experience who hasn't done a thing yet so basically he is like a 5th round pick next year.... a long shot.

The issue for Dallas will be depth and paying to keep the pieces above.

They'd probably be better off trading Ware and keeping as the new WDE Spencer though the cap really won't allow it.

[jterrell]

Originally Posted by wileedog

Bull. Harbaugh did it in SF.That organization was a mess for almost as long as us.

With parity, the cap, free agency, non-guaranteed contracts and the draft system the league is designed for quick turnarounds. Its doesn't take years to build a juggernaught anymore because there are few if any juggernaughts anymore. You just need to get a QB and some semi-decent talent around him and you are ahead of 50% of the league.

That's complete garbage.

Mike Singletary played a huge role in turning that franchise around. He got the boot because teams grows impatient but Harbaugh stepped into a lot of NFL talent on that team. Half the guys everyone fawns over were drafted before Harbaugh ever took the job. He simply continued the work Singletary started and added even more talent every off-season.

He's done a good job to be sure. But he didn't take over a crap team.

Dallas isn't a crap team but it needs a severe makeover and we have no cap room. It will be extremely tough to even reach 8 wins next year with this same group unless we get miraculous health and/or have a draft for the ages.

[BHendri5]

Originally Posted by RS12

Yep I'll stick with what I said they dont have that much time. TV ratings, gear sales and fan apathy say time isnt on their side. Nothing gets Jerry attention like lost money.

Your nuts, JG is here for a long time

[BHendri5]

Originally Posted by wileedog

Bull. Harbaugh did it in SF.That organization was a mess for almost as long as us.

With parity, the cap, free agency, non-guaranteed contracts and the draft system the league is designed for quick turnarounds. Its doesn't take years to build a juggernaught anymore because there are few if any juggernaughts anymore. You just need to get a QB and some semi-decent talent around him and you are ahead of 50% of the league.

bull , harbaugh just brought together what was already there

[DFWJC]

Originally Posted by InmanRoshi

The fact that he didn't even mention Lee or Carter as blocks to build around show me he didn't put half a second of thought into his response, or is so far gone into the broadcast booth he doesn't even watch tape anymore.

He was misinformed, imo.