ESPND: Garrett will decide who calls Cowboys' plays

[jnday]

Originally Posted by Flinger

... and you asked the question of any... and I mean any... head coach you might be interviewing - "What are the top 3 most important positions on a football team?"

Do you know what they would say?

1. QB
2. LT
3. CB

We did not overpay for CB's...

The Tampa defense does not require the best CBs that money can buy. It requires a good safety play and DL play. Kiffin said that he would have to alter the defense to fit the CBs. If that is the case, why go to the Tampa defense to begin with? With the money spent on CBs, the safeties and DL that are needed to run Kiffin's defense could be signed. There are other versions of the 4-3 that need better CBs. Why bring in a coach that doesn't run a 4-3 such as that?

[Doomsday101]

Originally Posted by Aven8

What a load of crap!

Does not fit the agenda so it is crap?

Whatever, You guys choose to believe the worse and nothing said outside of rumors on innuendos satisfies you.

Funny you guys cling to reports of unnamed sources and rumors thrown around the internet yet when the people involved the people who know make any statement you throw it to the side as if it means nothing.

[jnday]

Originally Posted by Reality

The NFL has always been a trending league. Whenever a few teams come up with something that works, the rest of the league tries to integrate or copy the same tactics. Whether it is the wildcat formation, 3-4 defense or the read-option, if it appears that one or more teams is successful because of it, teams that have not been successful will try to copy it.

While you can always make an argument that Jerry has his nose in everything and probably be right to some degree given that he is both the owner and GM, I think the "trend" aspect plays a bigger role in most changes.

[View Full Quote]I think the switch to a 4-3 defense was made for several reasons. The first of which is that the 3-4 never brought the dominating defense that they expected would eventually come from it. The fact that the Cowboys played poorly against read-option quarterbacks this year and, more importantly, as I stated in my Dose of Reality thread a while back, teams figured out they can force Ware into coverage or containment scenarios to keep him from having an impact behind the line of scrimmage.

They also realize that Ware is getting older and that the likelihood of resigning Spencer is low. Keeping Spencer is not impossible, but he would have to want to stay here quite a lot for it to happen meaning he would have to take a lower offer from the Cowboys than he would receive from other teams. They also look at the teams who had success this year and saw a lot of 4-3 defenses which I am sure made the decision even easier.

/reality

I agree with your post when it comes to the reason for the change. I.don't think it was planned as part of a long term vision. Can you signs that points to the change being a recent plan?

As I stated in another post, I wished the move to a 3-4 never would have took place. A big.NT was never signed to run the 3-4 at it's full strength and the team stuck with the belief that DEs were only there to take up blocks and defend the run. No pass rush was expected from them and the 3-4 was limited by these beliefs.

[dadymat]

Originally Posted by jnday

How do I know?

They have run the 3-4 for two years. Garrett makes these calls. Right? That is how I know he wanted the 3-4. Again, wasted two years.

Overpaying CBs when they are not needed only hurts the salary cap and it hurts filling the positions that are needed for the Tampa Two.

Face it, these changes were made during Jerry's " uncomfortable at Valley Ranch" temper tantrum. If the defensive changes were planned, they done an all-time poor job of it.

do you know how long Parcells stuck with the 4-3 when he arrived before he made the switch to 3-4 and bringing in new D coaches?.....was he a victim of Jerry's temper tantrums too?

[Reality]

Originally Posted by jnday

I.don't think it was planned as part of a long term vision. Can you signs that points to the change being a recent plan?

I agree with you about that! Think about it though .. if the Cowboys had gone 11-5 and won a playoff game or two, most if not all of the coaching staff would still be the same. I do think that the switch to the 4-3 is part of a long-term plan NOW, but I do not think that a year ago Jerry or Garrett were saying to themselves, "Let's switch to the 4-3 after this season."

As I stated in another post, I wished the move to a 3-4 never would have took place.

I agree completely. I was not thrilled with the switch back then either though I admit I was more optimistic about it than it turned out to be.

A big.NT was never signed to run the 3-4 at it's full strength and the team stuck with the belief that DEs were only there to take up blocks and defend the run. No pass rush was expected from them and the 3-4 was limited by these beliefs.

Exactly! It was not just the 3-4 defense that was the problem. It was the personnel (or lack there of) and the style of 3-4 that we ran that relegated the 3 linemen to nothing more than placeholders and run stoppers.

/reality

[CIWhitefish]

Originally Posted by jnday

The Tampa defense does not require the best CBs that money can buy. It requires a good safety play and DL play. Kiffin said that he would have to alter the defense to fit the CBs. If that is the case, why go to the Tampa defense to begin with? With the money spent on CBs, the safeties and DL that are needed to run Kiffin's defense could be signed. There are other versions of the 4-3 that need better CBs. Why bring in a coach that doesn't run a 4-3 such as that?

Perhaps it's the coach that they wanted. By all accounts a strong suit of Kiffin's is his attention to detail. It sounds as if that was something lacking in the last DC sound maybe it was the man that was most important.

[Wolfpack]

Originally Posted by Flinger

And CB's? Can anyone argue that our greatest unit and player weakness for 2 or 3 years was CB? Problem solved - regardless of system, they are players.

You made a nice very articulate post but I think you are only seeing what you want to see in some of the things you mentioned.

I'd aurgue the OL is been the biggest problem for the last 2-3 years and its not really even close. I think someone blew the call on rebuilding an OL. JG said that the OL needed faster more athetlic players. They then proceeded to bring in slow 2nd tier cast off FA's and draft a few guys that can never get off the bench or PS. They interior of the OL is slower and far less powerful than the guys they dumped years ago....but they are MUCH cheaper. How does that look like part of some master plan? Looks like wishful thinking to me and I'd lump the safety position in the same boat. A classic case of Lacewell or another yes (Tom C.) man telling Jerry what he wants to hear.

The 4-3 switch is much like articulated by Reality above...a slight re-alignment based on personal trends & contracts than part of some grand plan. The team was playing a 4-3 mostly anyway but the whole sale defensive personal changes are odd if you go back and consider that Jason was supposed to have had a strong hand in picking Ryan and Co. in the 1st place.

[Chocolate Lab]

Originally Posted by jnday

I would like to think these changes were a "vision", but the way these moves took place does not support that in the least bit. If anything, these moves were a last ditch effort to give Garrett one more chance. Drafts and free agent signings show no intention of changes up to this point. Why overpay for CBs when the defensive system does not require it? Why draft Wilber when he is not going to fit a system that they knew they were going to. This offseason just doesn't add up as part of a long term plan. I don't have a problem with the switch to the 4-3. I never liked the 3-4 in Dallas at all.

I just think the long term vision should have been in place two years ago when Garrett was hired. You can't have a long term vision that changes every two years. To top it off, Romo, Witten and Ware had two years wasted.

Exactly. It's absurd to claim this is part of any long term plan when the defense totally changes after two years. Or when the tune changes on the HC calling plays. Or when the HC's brother is sent packing.

It's really amazing how people willingly check their brains at the door just so they can claim they're right about Jason being in charge.

[Doomsday101]

Originally Posted by Chocolate Lab

Exactly. It's absurd to claim this is part of any long term plan when the defense totally changes after two years. Or when the tune changes on the HC calling plays. Or when the HC's brother is sent packing.

It's really amazing how people willingly check their brains at the door just so they can claim they're right about Jason being in charge.

Why? Jimmy Johnson came in with a longterm plan yet it was not long before Dave Shula was sent packing. So did Jimmy vision and plan for the Cowboys change? Or did the vision of what he wanted remain the same but changes had to be made to reach the vision he had in mind?

[HoosierCowboy]

not sure why some posters bother following the Boys--everything just gives them grief

[Chocolate Lab]

Originally Posted by Doomsday101

Why? Jimmy Johnson came in with a longterm plan yet it was not long before Dave Shula was sent packing. So did Jimmy vision and plan for the Cowboys change? Or did the vision of what he wanted remain the same but changes had to be made to reach the vision he had in mind?

That's not even close to the same as a radical schematic change requiring different players, but let me just ask you: Do you honestly believe Jerry is telling the truth that these moves were all Jason's ideas?

[Flinger]

Originally Posted by Wolfpack

You made a nice very articulate post but I think you are only seeing what you want to see in some of the things you mentioned.

I'd aurgue the OL is been the biggest problem for the last 2-3 years and its not really even close. I think someone blew the call on rebuilding an OL. JG said that the OL needed faster more athetlic players. They then proceeded to bring in slow 2nd tier cast off FA's and draft a few guys that can never get off the bench or PS. They interior of the OL is slower and far less powerful than the guys they dumped years ago....but they are MUCH cheaper. How does that look like part of some master plan? Looks like wishful thinking to me and I'd lump the safety position in the same boat. A classic case of Lacewell or another yes (Tom C.) man telling Jerry what he wants to hear.

[View Full Quote]The 4-3 switch is much like articulated by Reality above...a slight re-alignment based on personal trends & contracts than part of some grand plan. The team was playing a 4-3 mostly anyway but the whole sale defensive personal changes are odd if you go back and consider that Jason was supposed to have had a strong hand in picking Ryan and Co. in the 1st place.

Thank you, Wolfpack. Very kind of you...

In regards to seeing only what I want to see, well - maybe. But consider that my post was not my full view, just a partial one. To continue some thoughts and belief:

I do believe the OL is very important. As the DL. It is a balance between the trenches and skill players mentioned earlier (QB, LT, CB). In regards to our OL, no question we have 'swung and missed' for so long that now, having addressed the CB problem, it has risen to our number 1a or 1b need (DL?).

[Doomsday101]

Originally Posted by Chocolate Lab

That's not even close to the same as a radical schematic change requiring different players, but let me just ask you: Do you honestly believe Jerry is telling the truth that these moves were all Jason's ideas?

I think Jason is the one who has been interviewing coaches not Jerry. I think people who are there and know what is taking place know more than those who can't do anything but name unnamed sources or put out rumors. But hey if it fits the agenda right? Come on you guys sit here and make up crap use rumors as if they are facts.

People who know are Jerry and Jason yet anytime they say something that does not fit the agenda well it is a lie. I'll tell you what is a lie and that is rumors stirred up by those who are in no way a part of this organization nor do they have any direct access to meeting that take place behind the doors. They can print what they want but to claim any of that garbage as fact is laughable.

As for what it not being the same with the change of Shula to Norv yes it was a complete change in offense strategy in terms of personnel you don't know what Kiffin feels that he needs to change personnel wise. You guys make claims of well this player does not fit into kiffin defense as if you know this as some fact. YOU DONT.

Hearing fans go on as if they are running the show as if they know how to run Kiffins defense is a joke. Opinions we all have but I never confuse other fans opinion as some fact or supreme knowledge of what is going on they don't

[rocboy22]

Originally Posted by Doomsday101

I think Jason is the one who has been interviewing coaches not Jerry. I think people who are there and know what is taking place know more than those who can't do anything but name unnamed sources or put out rumors. But hey if it fits the agenda right? Come on you guys sit here and make up crap use rumors as if they are facts.

People who know are Jerry and Jason yet anytime they say something that does not fit the agenda well it is a lie. I'll tell you what is a lie and that is rumors stirred up by those who are in no way a part of this organization nor do they have any direct access to meeting that take place behind the doors. They can print what they want but to claim any of that garbage as fact is laughable.

[View Full Quote]As for what it not being the same with the change of Shula to Norv yes it was a complete change in offense strategy in terms of personnel you don't know what Kiffin feels that he needs to change personnel wise. You guys make claims of well this player does not fit into kiffin defense as if you know this as some fact. YOU DONT.

Hearing fans go on as if they are running the show as if they know how to run Kiffins defense is a joke. Opinions we all have but I never confuse other fans opinion as some fact or supreme knowledge of what is going on they don't

[Chocolate Lab]

I didn't see you answer the question.

But you can stop lumping me in with this group of "you guys", whoever that is. I speak for myself and myself only.

And what's more, I don't have an "agenda". You're probably assuming I hate that Jerry is doing this, but in fact I don't. I've said many times that I prefer this to the stale, underperforming status quo we've had the last two years.

But that doesn't mean I believe Jerry when he says this is all Jason. That requires ignoring the weight of the evidence in this situation.

And finally, don't act like I claimed I knew how to run Kiffin's defense better than him or whatever it was that you were getting at. It is anything but some radical opinion that Ryan's defense is markedly different from Kiffin's. In fact, everyone agrees that it's very different.