Deadliest U.S. sniper murdered at a gun range in Erath County

[dexternjack]

Originally Posted by ABQCOWBOY

Can't agree with this. Shooting can be very therapeutic in cases such as this. As it turns out, it was disastrous here but it's not an uncommon practice in general.

And in turn, I can't agree with that. I come from a family of officers and detectives spread throughout from Knoxville to Houston to LA. What is the first thing that happens to a cop after a shooting--his gun is taken away and he/she is asked to stay away while investigations are being conducted.

This is not to say the cops have other firearms in possession but protocol is for their best interest. That is standard procedure in most states but there are exceptions and going to the firing range is not therapeutic in those cases.

I am pro-gun but there needs to be a better monitoring system in check for those who have no business being around them.

By your logic, should a registered sex offender be allowed to teach children in our school system? It could be therapeutic and help recovery....NOT

If someone suffers from a mental disorder-PTSD-do not put lethal weapons in their hands, period. I know, he was a marine and likes guns, so what, he is a mental case.

I am not trying to be argumentative and you made a good point but my opinion will not change. Mentally handicapped + weapons = potential disaster.

[Hoofbite]

Originally Posted by Cajuncowboy

I don't want to turn this political but this is an area where our government in general is falling down terribly. These men and women need to get the help they need to overcome this. If they are having these kinds of issues, it is the responsibility of the government to see to it they are treated. I know at so many veterans hospitals the funding is either misspent or lacking in general.

Our heroes deserve better than they get.

Whole heartedly agree.

I know someone who's job is to try and secure benefits for vets and some of the stuff I've heard is just heart breaking.

The saddest part is, if we continue to short change our responsibility to provide support and medical help to these guys, the situation will just get worse. Doing ourselves harm by not accepting responsibility essentially.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Originally Posted by dexternjack

And in turn, I can't agree with that. I come from a family of officers and detectives spread throughout from Knoxville to Houston to LA. What is the first thing that happens to a cop after a shooting--his gun is taken away and he/she is asked to stay away while investigations are being conducted.

This is not to say the cops have other firearms in possession but protocol is for their best interest. That is standard procedure in most states but there are exceptions and going to the firing range is not therapeutic in those cases.

I am pro-gun but there needs to be a better monitoring system in check for those who have no business being around them.

By your logic, should a registered sex offender be allowed to teach children in our school system? It could be therapeutic and help recovery....NOT

[View Full Quote]If someone suffers from a mental disorder-PTSD-do not put lethal weapons in their hands, period. I know, he was a marine and likes guns, so what, he is a mental case.

I am not trying to be argumentative and you made a good point but my opinion will not change. Mentally handicapped + weapons = potential disaster.

You are putting words in my mouth. First of all, there was no discussion on how long before a person should be allowed to shoot or any such qualification in your statement. You simply said that it should not be allowed. Well, I don't agree with that. Besides, it's any person's constitutional right. You can't just make a blanket statement that says it's not allowed. I mean, I suppose you can but it won't fly.

[Hoofbite]

Originally Posted by dexternjack

And in turn, I can't agree with that. I come from a family of officers and detectives spread throughout from Knoxville to Houston to LA. What is the first thing that happens to a cop after a shooting--his gun is taken away and he/she is asked to stay away while investigations are being conducted.

This is not to say the cops have other firearms in possession but protocol is for their best interest. That is standard procedure in most states but there are exceptions and going to the firing range is not therapeutic in those cases.

I am pro-gun but there needs to be a better monitoring system in check for those who have no business being around them.

By your logic, should a registered sex offender be allowed to teach children in our school system? It could be therapeutic and help recovery....NOT

[View Full Quote]If someone suffers from a mental disorder-PTSD-do not put lethal weapons in their hands, period. I know, he was a marine and likes guns, so what, he is a mental case.

I am not trying to be argumentative and you made a good point but my opinion will not change. Mentally handicapped + weapons = potential disaster.

Your sex offender analogy is bush league and quite frankly out of line.

Pedofiles are convicted felons, only an idiot would argue they be allowed around children.

This man was guilty of nothing other than serving his country.

PTSD varies from person to person. There's no way to determine who will be hit hardest and if you stigmatize the condition, you'll exacerbate the problem by forcing people into hiding when you start taking away the very rights that they put their life on the line to defend.

It's a horrid situation but these people need support, not punishment or suspiscion of instability and removal of rights.

[dexternjack]

Originally Posted by ABQCOWBOY

You are putting words in my mouth. First of all, there was no discussion on how long before a person should be allowed to shoot or any such qualification in your statement. You simply said that it should not be allowed. Well, I don't agree with that. Besides, it's any person's constitutional right. You can't just make a blanket statement that says it's not allowed. I mean, I suppose you can but it won't fly.

Sorry, I am assuming he was officially diagnosed with PTSD. If so, then he should not be allowed to have a gun and the military should have him in counseling with a watchful eye over him.

Maybe Kyle was that watchful eye, I don't know but if he was, that environment was a poor choice.

[dexternjack]

Originally Posted by Hoofbite

Your sex offender analogy is bush league and quite frankly out of line.

Pedofiles are convicted felons, only an idiot would argue they be allowed around children.

This man was guilty of nothing other than serving his country.

PTSD varies from person to person. There's no way to determine who will be hit hardest and if you stigmatize the condition, you'll exacerbate the problem by forcing people into hiding when you start taking away the very rights that they put their life on the line to defend.

It's a horrid situation but these people need support, not punishment or suspiscion of instability and removal of rights.

Valid points and in no way do I want ex-military to feel out of place. I have a brother in the Marines and a brother-in-law who flies helis out of Miramar. You have no idea how much I value our military.

For those who have mental disorders from war, they need help, not just from us, but from the government. My point is..don't put a person who has that disorder in a situation that can grow out of hand quickly, i.e. do not be in a firing range with a gun in his hand. Get him some counseling first and make sure they are on the right path.

The sex offender was probably out of place but was trying to make a point with an example that would get across quickly. I did not mean to infer young girls(pedophilia), was for those men who engaged with 15-16 yr olds. It is still a crime.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Originally Posted by dexternjack

Sorry, I am assuming he was officially diagnosed with PTSD. If so, then he should not be allowed to have a gun and the military should have him in counseling with a watchful eye over him.

Maybe Kyle was that watchful eye, I don't know but if he was, that environment was a poor choice.

I don't know enough about the story to say if he was diagnosed or not. That's part of the sad and unfortunate story I guess. I only know what I heard reported, which was, both were from the same home town and that the parents of the Marine in question asked Kyle to try and help him.

This entire thing is unfortunate and I'm sure that a clinical diagnosis would have probably been the best case scenario but that's part of the problem I think. What we have is a lot of Vets trying to help other Vets because there is not enough help out there for them. You end up with the very best of intentions but the results, at least in this case, were horrible.

It is a tragedy. No question.

[ninja]

Originally Posted by Cajuncowboy

I don't want to turn this political but this is an area where our government in general is falling down terribly. These men and women need to get the help they need to overcome this. If they are having these kinds of issues, it is the responsibility of the government to see to it they are treated. I know at so many veterans hospitals the funding is either misspent or lacking in general.

Our heroes deserve better than they get.

"The help they need..." which is what? There is no one size fits all. The doctors themselves don't even know what to do imo. There is no cure, no magic pill or medicine. The symptoms may lay dormant for a long time and then all of the sudden come to the surface. Mental illness is a cruel disease; even if you identify it, there isn't a whole lot that can be done in a lot of cases. Some of these soldiers may have had hidden issues even before entering the service.

Yeah, the government has a responsibility to a point. Uncle Sam can throw money at the issue (and he does). But, that doesn't guarantee anything. I don't know the answers. And I don't think the medical field knows a whole lot more. If the patient refuses treatment, there ain't squat you can do. What good is paying a therapist, if the patient doesn't show up?

Sad dilemma. I don't have the answer.

[CanadianCowboysFan]

Originally Posted by burmafrd

Here is a very sad fact. You can get people help but for a lot of cases it will not help..

The stress of war and deployments work on a person's mental health and its not good.

Facts are there are always going to be sad things like this as long as we have wars.

Arguably your best post ever.

[Cajuncowboy]

Originally Posted by ninja

"The help they need..." which is what? There is no one size fits all. The doctors themselves don't even know what to do imo. There is no cure, no magic pill or medicine. The symptoms may lay dormant for a long time and then all of the sudden come to the surface. Mental illness is a cruel disease; even if you identify it, there isn't a whole lot that can be done in a lot of cases. Some of these soldiers may have had hidden issues even before entering the service.

Yeah, the government has a responsibility to a point. Uncle Sam can throw money at the issue (and he does). But, that doesn't guarantee anything. I don't know the answers. And I don't think the medical field knows a whole lot more. If the patient refuses treatment, there ain't squat you can do. What good is paying a therapist, if the patient doesn't show up?

Sad dilemma. I don't have the answer.

They are often just shrugged at because of the very thing you mentioned. They don't know what to do with it so they do nothing. And because of that they often feel isolated and cornered. When that happens they lash out and they revert to what they know. And in too many cases it's violence. The admin has diverted so much funding into black holes yet one of most valuable assets, our vets, suffer.

I don't have the answer either but there should be a lot more focus on these kinds of things than there currently is.

[BraveHeartFan]

Extremely sad and terrible situation. My heart and prayers go out to the family and friends of those killed.

[arglebargle]

Veterans have had problems with funding for support services for decades. Everyone wants to talk the talk, but they don't want to pay the bill. It's extra difficult with the long deploments and increases in survival with serious injuries.

[Hoofbite]

Originally Posted by ninja

"The help they need..." which is what? There is no one size fits all. The doctors themselves don't even know what to do imo. There is no cure, no magic pill or medicine. The symptoms may lay dormant for a long time and then all of the sudden come to the surface. Mental illness is a cruel disease; even if you identify it, there isn't a whole lot that can be done in a lot of cases. Some of these soldiers may have had hidden issues even before entering the service.

Yeah, the government has a responsibility to a point. Uncle Sam can throw money at the issue (and he does). But, that doesn't guarantee anything. I don't know the answers. And I don't think the medical field knows a whole lot more. If the patient refuses treatment, there ain't squat you can do. What good is paying a therapist, if the patient doesn't show up?

Sad dilemma. I don't have the answer.

The hard part with PTSD is that it's associated with other psychiatric conditions such as depression, anxiety and substance abuse. You're basically dealing with a conglomerate of some of the most debilitating individual mental illnesses that are out there.

I think they could do more although I'm not entirely informed on everything that it is they do. As I said above, I know someone who every day has to deal with trying to secure benefits for these guys. I've heard stories about veterans who fought years ago, some as many as decades, who are struggling to receive benefits because their injuries sustained in combat apparently weren't convincing enough.......I guess. IIRC, one guy I was told of still has shrapnel from his time and he's fighting like hell to get his benefits to come through even though he fought a long, long time ago.

To be honest, I think the US has largely ignored many of their vets which is a pretty sad thing to have to say about the country you live in. Not all of course but there are guys out there who are honestly struggling and it just shouldn't be the case.

I think with PTSD they need to have intense follow up periods after service. Mandatory counseling and assessment for all sorts of mental illnesses and substance abuse disorders. Do they have this currently, I honestly don't have an idea. They need to teach these guys how to reintegrate into society and provide them with the support network and access to medical attention that they deserve.

Perhaps they need to transition these guys from combat zones to areas where there isn't fighting going on, possibly in another country, and have them "unwind" and acclimate to life without gunfire before bringing them home. Provide them with the structure and routine that they are used to but in an environment where they aren't constantly under the threat of attack.

They could probably limit the duration of a single stop to a greater extent as well. Rotate them and get them to mentally "come back" a little bit. Again, this is an area that I don't have a lot of knowledge in so maybe these efforts are made. If they are, I'm not sure the type of results they're looking for are being realized so maybe they should step up the attempt a little bit.

Like you, I don't have the answer either. I can only throw out some ideas but I think something absolutely has to be done for these guys. I couldn't imagine being a parent and having to suffer through a deployment only to see my child come back unable to cope, ultimately harming someone else or even themselves. You think you're out of the woods and then the worst possible outcome hits you square in the mouth. It's saddening to think that people have to deal with this.

[Garland powerplay]

interested to find out true motive, read reports there was a bounty out from Iraqis ,enemies etc..

[a_minimalist]

his memorial is actually at Cowboys stadium; which is pretty cool to see the stadium used for something like this