Picking Players Who Don't Fit?

[5Stars]

Originally Posted by blindzebra

You can't draft BPA, it is a myth.

Teams draft in tiers of players, than select from that tier the player that best fits, not always the highest rated.

All teams draft for need, to think otherwise is delusional.

I am not saying you draft the 200th player at 18 because that is your biggest need, but you will take the 19th player at a need over the 16th player that doesn't fit.

True, because if you did that and had enough salary cap, you would have a team of QB's, and receivers.

[xwalker]

Originally Posted by Verdict

Let's suppose a guy who is undoubtably the most dominant player at his position falls to you (the top rated guard comes to mind) and he is clearly head and shoulders better than any other player on your draft board.

Do you pass and select a lesser player who fits your scheme, or take the BPA and try to play to his strengths?

BPA gets discussed a lot; however, it is very rare that there is one specific player at any draft spot that is clearly better than everybody else available.

[Cowboy Junkie]

Originally Posted by burmafrd

Teams that claim they do BPA are lying.

Teams do BPA at a position of need a LOT.

Matt Millen actually did BPA- which is why he drafted WRs year after year.

That really worked out well.

I totally disagree with you.

When Millen took Mike Williams it was a very questionable pick. Most NFL people new he was looking more like a tight end than a WR and running like an offensive lineman. He clearly was not the BPA.

then he took Calvin Johnson and then traded Roy Williams to the cowboys for a bounty of picks. ID say that turned out pretty well.

[KJJ]

Originally Posted by Picksix

If that dominant player is a guy like RGIII, then yes, adapting the system for him works. Belichek has been pretty successful at it, like changing to more of a vertical game when he had Moss, and more of a short passing game without him. Of course, it helped having a guy like Brady, who could run both.

But then what if you have different players with different strengths? You can't just have an ala carte type system, where you can somehow have a scheme that fits everyone, even though they all may be strong in different areas. And then, someone else comes along with a different set of skills or strengths. You're not just gonna change you system - again - to suit that player. Doesn't work that way. Every coach has a system. Landry, Parcells, Noll, Walsh, Dungy, etc., all had systems that they found players for. Not the other way around.

If you have a QB like RG3 or any QB for that matter that has a unique skill set you create a system that fits them. Denver did that with Tebow in 2011 during the season. The OP asked " Let's suppose a guy who is undoubtably the most dominant player at his position falls to you (the top rated guard comes to mind) and he is clearly head and shoulders better than any other player on your draft board.

Do you pass and select a lesser player who fits your scheme, or take the BPA and try to play to his strengths?

If a "dominate" player falls to you who's clearly head and shoulders better than any player on your draft board than you have to pick that player regardless of your scheme and tweak the system to adapt to what that player does best if you want them to become a dominate player at the NFL level. You don't have to change an entire scheme to fit one player minus a QB. If there's something that a player does exceptionally well that made them dominate in college and could in the NFL then most teams will find a way to allow them to do what they do best within the framework of a their scheme.

The biggest mistake teams make is trying to fit a player into a scheme rather than have the player fit what they're doing. This has caused some great college players to disappoint at the NFL level. When you have a 'dominate" player you have to adapt to what they do best to get the most out of them. If they can dominate at their position that will improve you as a football team.

Originally Posted by Picksix

Every coach has a system. Landry, Parcells, Noll, Walsh, Dungy, etc., all had systems that they found players for. Not the other way around.

Landry had a very strict system but he adapted his system to allow Roger Stabach and Tony Dorsett to do what they did best. Landry didn't like Staubach scrambling around and running. Early on he tried keeping Roger from running but Landry started to realize this was something Staubach did well and he made plays doing it so he went along with it. When Dorsett arrived in Dallas he wouldn't run where the play was designed and would change direction and it drove Landry nuts.

Because Dorsett was making plays and breaking long runs with all these great change of direction moves Landry addressed the team one day and said Tony is a different type of back and we're going to let him do what comes naturally to him. When you have a special player that has unique skills and has the ability to dominate coaches are going to recognize it and adapt whether it's Landry, Parcells, Noll, Walsh , Dungy or whoever.

[Wolfpack]

Originally Posted by KJJ

When you have a special player that has unique skills and has the ability to dominate coaches are going to recognize it and adapt whether it's Landry, Parcells, Noll, Walsh , Dungy or whoever.

I hope Red will learn that skill. He is still in the "must execute my system phase". Its not going to end well for him here if he keeps that mind set.

[junk]

Originally Posted by 5Stars

So, say a team really needs a corner because the backend is always getting beat, but, the BPA is a guard. How you going to adapt, tweak, whatever?

I guess that wasn't how I read the question. I thought the intent of the question was something along the lines of if the top rated guard fell to you and his primary strength was in a man blocking scheme, but you ran a zone blocking scheme, would you still take him?

My reply was formulated along those lines of thought.

However, I certainly wouldn't go draft a corner just because I needed a corner. That's a poor way to draft.

[speedkilz88]

Originally Posted by Cowboy Junkie

I totally disagree with you.

When Millen took Mike Williams it was a very questionable pick. Most NFL people new he was looking more like a tight end than a WR and running like an offensive lineman. He clearly was not the BPA.

then he took Calvin Johnson and then traded Roy Williams to the cowboys for a bounty of picks. ID say that turned out pretty well.

They could have gotten a lot more picks by trading down instead of taking both Williams.

[jnday]

Originally Posted by supercowboy8

if your talking about Warmack, he fits every scheme. He is one of the few that why he is the top rated OG.

But to answer your question then no, you don't change everything for one player, because the rest of the team fits the scheme you run. You win as a team, not one player.

Warmack certainly is not the typical zone blocking guard. He can play in a zone blocking system but it is not his strength. Speed is not his strong point, power is. Cooper is more of a zone lineman and playing within that system would allow him to use his talent. The problem right now is that Dallas is running the zone blocking with one player that fits the system. That is Tyron and he regressed from his rookie season with man to man blocking. The Cowboys have Heinz 57 mixture on the line and that is not good to run any blocking system. They went with the small guys and it failed and then brought in two free agents that had more size and didn't fit the system. I don't think the team knows what direction they are going. Leary was another head scratcher. He is no zone lineman , but they really wanted him.

[CowboyMcCoy]

Originally Posted by junk

You should take the BPA and adapt your scheme.

Yes...

[Clove]

Originally Posted by KJJ

You pick the best player and play to their strengths if they're a dominate player.

This. Load your team with talent, then make good coach and player decisions on game day.

[SkinsandTerps]

It also depends on where it is that player falls in the draft.

[KJJ]

Originally Posted by Clove

This. Load your team with talent, then make good coach and player decisions on game day.

Any smart team is going to pick a dominate player who's head and shoulders better than anyone on their draft board that's a no brainer regardless of the system a team is running. Teams tweak schemes to fit a dominate player in and schemes change if they're not working. It's all about putting a player in the best position to succeed and dominate at the NFL level. If a player has something they do exceptionally well that's helping you win games you adapt to it.

[SkinsandTerps]

Originally Posted by KJJ

Any smart team is going to pick a dominate player who's head and shoulders better than anyone on their draft board that's a no brainer regardless of the system a team is running. Teams tweak schemes to fit a dominate player in and schemes change if they're not working. It's all about putting a player in the best position to succeed and dominate at the NFL level. If a player has something they do exceptionally well that's helping you win games you adapt to it.

That depends also. It is not an exact science.

Say you have an aging starting CB that is still good, but would pretty good at FS...you draft a CB or do you draft "potentially" great Safety ? You get a FA safety that is at the top of his game in his current system ? There are times when drafting BPA does happen. I can think of two or three recent DBs that this has happened to in recent years. But also tons of other players.

Lots of factors and some players don't adjust, some players do. It's all a crap shoot.

[KJJ]

Originally Posted by SkinsandTerps

That depends also. It is not an exact science.

Say you have an aging starting CB that is still good, but would pretty good at FS...you draft a CB or do you draft "potentially" great Safety ? You get a FA safety that is at the top of his game in his current system ? There are times when drafting BPA does happen. I can think of two or three recent DBs that this has happened to in recent years. But also tons of other players.

Lots of factors and some players don't adjust, some players do. It's all a crap shoot.

The draft will never be an exact science it's a crapshoot and always will be. Some players can't make the transition from college to pro which is why we see so many busts in the top 10. Teams spend months looking at film, prodding and poking college players trying to avoid making a mistake in April. A player that was dominating at their position in college may never develop into a dominating player at the NFL level regardless if a team does everything possible to put them in the best position to succeed.

As to your question if I have an aging CB who's still "good" I would draft a potentially great safety who was dominate in college in hopes of solidifying that position for years to come. Some players have trouble making the adjustment from one position to another so I prefer drafting a player who's made their mark at a particular position. However there has been many CB's make the successful transition from CB to safety.

[mmillman]

good coaches adapt to what their players do well. that is why you see teams like Seattle, SF, Washington add the read option and pistol offenses. You don't force the same offense on Andrew Luck.

With a guy like Romo who doesn't take care of the ball very well. You need a good running game so the defense isn't always teeing off on him. Dallas has always had the game ride on Romo's shoulders and he isn't an elite QB that can do that consistently.