Researchers: Toddler cured of HIV

[Denim Chicken]

Originally Posted by jobberone

You missed the point. They can't develop new medicines without a boatload of capital as the very vast majority of chemicals don't work well or are toxic yada. And even if they make it to trials it takes years to get them to the public and many don't even make it out of trials anyway.

So without money you don't get the new drugs to cure diseases. Get it??

In Africa the first thing I learned was you don't do anything completely for free even if your services are free to the hospital and patient. The hospital charges something the patient/family can afford. Or you'll get overwhelmed and many take the meds you give them and sell them. So there is an order to things.

NOTHING is free.

And I edited out the unacceptable part of your post.

No, I understand. It's a product of putting for-profit corporations in charge of R&D and distribution.

[Doomsday101]

Originally Posted by Denim Chicken

Exactly, most who have HIV are in poverty and can't afford treatment which makes researching and curing the disease less profitable. However, treating the disease (not curing) remains a cash cow.

and it is not just about profit. Yes profit is important but to think that they have no desire to cure it ridicules.

[Denim Chicken]

Originally Posted by Doomsday101

and it is not just about profit. Yes profit is important but to think that they have no desire to cure it ridicules.

No, what is ridiculous if believing that that the large pharma companies care about anything other than the bottom line.

[Doomsday101]

Originally Posted by Denim Chicken

No, what is ridiculous if believing that that the large pharma companies care about anything other than the bottom line.

Yes they care about the bottom line they also have professional who believe in what they are doing in trying to find cures for various illness. Sorry this jaded view that they don't give a damn is just not true. You seem to think making profits are bad? If they make no profit they will not stay in business very long that is how life works no profit, no pay, no business. That is reality but to act as if they don't care BS

[Eric_Boyer]

Originally Posted by Denim Chicken

Step one: Cure HIV
Step two: Price cure exorbitantly high
Step three: Profit

step 4 - altruists step in and declare this medicine is a right. ignoring the years of research, the millions spent and all the long hours away from family and friends working on a lucrative cure.

[jobberone]

Originally Posted by Denim Chicken

No, I understand. It's a product of putting for-profit corporations in charge of R&D and distribution.

And you think the government can run the entire pharmaceutical world and do so efficiently and produce all the meds including the R&D etc?? If so then you are dreaming. Name one thing outside the military which the government runs well? Where do you think the vaccines for polio came? Or influenza?

Now if you want to argue we need to take more money and pour it into R&D and cut back some on regulation to maybe European levels then we can have a discussion.

Until then your emotional reasoning for giving everything away, while having an admirable source, doesn't work in the long run. Eventually someone has to pick up the tab.

[Denim Chicken]

Originally Posted by jobberone

And you think the government can run the entire pharmaceutical world and do so efficiently and produce all the meds including the R&D etc?? If so then you are dreaming. Name one thing outside the military which the government runs well? Where do you think the vaccines for polio came? Or influenza?

Now if you want to argue we need to take more money and pour it into R&D and cut back some on regulation to maybe European levels then we can have a discussion.

Until then your emotional reasoning for giving everything away, while having an admirable source, doesn't work in the long run. Eventually someone has to pick up the tab.

I did not mention handing over to govt. I'm actually libertarian leaning. I'm simply commentating on the way things are under our present system. If you want to play the free market card, then I suggest you go and see how much these companies spend to lobby congress against competition. If you want to play the morality card, I suggest you see how thee companies market their dangerous drugs illegally and lobby for less regulations to continue to sell proven dangerous drugs to the public and how they pay doctors to push their drugs to your children.

[jobberone]

Originally Posted by Denim Chicken

No, I understand. It's a product of putting for-profit corporations in charge of R&D and distribution.

It's pointless to argue with someone who can only repeat a mantra borne from an unrealistic view of the world. It's great to help people. I've given away countless hours of work that took me years to acquire not to mention money donated. If you want to help people then I suggest you join a mission to say Haiti, Nigeria, or Kenya and donate your time and expertise to ease their suffering and disease. So pick up a shovel.

[Denim Chicken]

Originally Posted by jobberone

It's pointless to argue with someone who can only repeat a mantra borne from an unrealistic view of the world. It's great to help people. I've given away countless hours of work that took me years to acquire not to mention money donated. If you want to help people then I suggest you join a mission to say Haiti, Nigeria, or Kenya and donate your time and expertise to ease their suffering and disease. So pick up a shovel.

No disrespect brother, I see your side as well. I understand the need for funding. It just seems to me that the further we evolve, the need for greater profits, more and more, trumps the ability to generally help people.

[jobberone]

Originally Posted by Denim Chicken

No disrespect brother, I see your side as well. I understand the need for funding. It just seems to me that the further we evolve, the need for greater profits, more and more, trumps the ability to generally help people.

Ok, now this I can respond to. I agree there is greed in places. Usually it catches up to them but not always. I still see good even in high places including corporations. But I'm not blind to the greed and corruption everywhere I go. China, US, and esp third world countries. But those companies need to show a profit to the shareholders which is people everywhere these days.

Cheers.

[Hoofbite]

Originally Posted by Eric_Boyer

step 4 - altruists step in and declare this medicine is a right. ignoring the years of research, the millions spent and all the long hours away from family and friends working on a lucrative cure.

Not really a strong argument.

That would separate their job in what way from the rest of the working world? A little more peculiar that you'd deny the idea of medicine being a right, therefore accepting that some people will in fact die (I'm not arguing one way or the other over the aspect of it being a right), and then try to pull on the heartstrings on behalf of the researchers simply because they have to punch in and out on the time clock somewhere other than their own house. How many hours you suppose one of the patients who doesn't have a right to medicine might spend away from family or friends if left untreated?

The research and money spent is however a strong point to make. Last I read, it takes about $800M to get a single drug to market. Of course, this includes all the money that is spent on the thousands of other drugs that never made it. Simplest terms, you take 10,000 possible designs and run with them. When it's all said and done, you'll have spent years and almost $1B in order to get a single marketable product out of that lot of 10,000.

[jobberone]

Originally Posted by Hoofbite

Not really a strong argument.

That would separate their job in what way from the rest of the working world? A little more peculiar that you'd deny the idea of medicine being a right, therefore accepting that some people will in fact die (I'm not arguing one way or the other over the aspect of it being a right), and then try to pull on the heartstrings on behalf of the researchers simply because they have to punch in and out on the time clock somewhere other than their own house. How many hours you suppose one of the patients who doesn't have a right to medicine might spend away from family or friends if left untreated?

[View Full Quote]The research and money spent is however a strong point to make. Last I read, it takes about $800M to get a single drug to market. Of course, this includes all the money that is spent on the thousands of other drugs that never made it. Simplest terms, you take 10,000 possible designs and run with them. When it's all said and done, you'll have spent years and almost $1B in order to get a single marketable product out of that lot of 10,000.

Good post. This is how to debate. Don't agree with the first paragraph completely. I didn't realize it now took a billion to get one drug on the market but that's not that surprising.

[Hoofbite]

Originally Posted by jobberone

Good post. This is how to debate. Don't agree with the first paragraph completely. I didn't realize it now took a billion to get one drug on the market but that's not that surprising.

There was an entire article I read about the profits of drug companies.

Im trying to find it but it was interesting.

[ScipioCowboy]

Originally Posted by jobberone

You missed the point. They can't develop new medicines without a boatload of capital as the very vast majority of chemicals don't work well or are toxic yada. And even if they make it to trials it takes years to get them to the public and many don't even make it out of trials anyway.

So without money you don't get the new drugs to cure diseases. Get it??

In Africa the first thing I learned was you don't do anything completely for free even if your services are free to the hospital and patient. The hospital charges something the patient/family can afford. Or you'll get overwhelmed and many take the meds you give them and sell them. So there is an order to things.

NOTHING is free.

And I edited out the unacceptable part of your post.

Good luck convincing people of this. If Facebook has taught me anything, it's that people seldom grasp the fundamentals of economics.