Pressure on BP

[Hostile]

Originally Posted by ROYDESTROY

I must agree with hostile..I hate when people throw around terms like "logical" and "irrational" with regard to opinions over football matters. To be sure some people argue with a lack of sound reasoning and at times may utilize faulty logic. Yet claims of having "objective" opinions is simply moronic because opinions are subjective by nature.

Fans often argue perspectives out of frustration and not by sheer logic...look at the content of the board 8 months ago and look at the board now. Circumstances and change often shape opinions and responses of fans as they rightly should...but none of us are always logical and consistent if we are honest. Appeals to "objectivity" because your opinions are self-verified as being true does nothing to in concrete reality 'objectify" your opinions.

[View Full Quote]I do believe everyone has a right to their opinion and to some extent because we have an opinion and some type of reasons for them then we automatically think contradictory opinions are wrong. There is nothing wrong with that but one still must respect anothers right to be wrong in our on eyes because perhaps under further analysis...it was not them who were wrong all along. I disagree with the extremes on both sides, those who think we must adopt every other opinion as equally true with our own and those who think only their opinion is true with an arrogant attitude.

Just so we know...logic is a tool to validate or invalidate arguments and arguments are not true or false...propositions/premises/conclusions are..and the wise logician understands the tools of the trade and the proper execution as such in light of what he/she is after...hopefully the truth and corresponding sound reasoning. But sometimes other factors skew the path to the truth and we may find ourselves holding a false proposition and invalid argument or other variables as mixture. Point is it may be wise to listen and exchange before we tear down anothers perspective..they could assist us when we need it most.

That was a great post. I wish every member of every forum could abide by that and respect what other people say and think.

[KDWilliams85]

Originally Posted by Hostile

Jeez, that's just ridiculous.

Parcells: "Hello men. We're shooting for mediocrity unless at Training Camp you really show me something. Then we'll adjust our thinking and raise our goals and expectations."

Once the season ends the goal is to get better. Once you start adding the better personnel expactations rise. Not just for the Head Coach and his staff. They rise everywhere.

To think that Dallas is not looking to be vastly improved with the personnel acquisitions of this off season is myopic at best. You can bet your bottom dollar that the goal upon the completion of last season was the playoffs this year. So far, everything they have done is pointed towards a return there.

[View Full Quote]The expectations started the day the season ended. You're trying to put your personal viewpoint on the situation and paint everyone into that box. Not going to happen. Sorry, you live in an "irrational and unacceptable" world.

Heh. It's funny that you use an expectation to justify the use of them. You would have made a better case if you said this:

"Hello men. It's the offseason training and conditioning programs. Last season is over with. You all start clean. We have nowhere to go but up so let's see what you have to offer."

No expectations. Just aspirations and potential.

After training camp:

"Hello men. Now that you have gotten yourselves back into a football frame of mind, I have come to expect that you give me everything you have every week. What you had before is no longer good enough."

You have expectations now based on what you've seen instead of what you're hoping to see.

That makes more sense. Of course offseason signings and the draft alter the perception of expectations, but they aren't expectations to begin with. They're clauses of conditionality. You think that:

"Ware was an explosive rusher in college. We expect that it'll carry over to the NFL."

That's an expectation based on previous events. Those mean nothing now.

While, it should be:

"Ware was an explosive rusher in college. We're hoping that he can elevate that talent to the NFL level."

That's an aspiration based on previous events but on the potential to see what he can do. Not on what he has already done.

I, personally, don't know if you don't get the logic behind it or not... but I think I've made the difference between an expectation and an aspiration clear.

It's up to you to accept it or not. Disappointment will come from expectations. A learning experience will come from aspiration.

[jksmith269]

Originally Posted by Hostile

That was a great post. I wish every member of every forum could abide by that and respect what other people say and think.

If it were only so easy.. Here's my way of looking at things I don't want you to think somethiing because I tell you to. I like stats because thats all we really have to go by in FB so I'll show you with stats and let you make a decision and yes I some times get heated when the writing is on the wall. I have been asked why do you always come out with the stats well hello in sports its what have you done and the answer is for the most part in the stats.

I thinks its in our Nature to be Hostile (no pun intended HOS) when we don't get what we want or think things should go our way and don't. I will say this if someone presents me with a good reason I'm willing to listen and change my opinion I don't know everything even if part of me thinks I do. I like to be open minded (about certain things) I think its the only way you can learn and I for one love to learn new things. IMO when you quit learning you quit living.

[Hostile]

Originally Posted by KDWilliams85

Heh. It's funny that you use an expectation to justify the use of them. You would have made a better case if you said this:

"Hello men. It's the offseason training and conditioning programs. Last season is over with. You all start clean. We have nowhere to go but up so let's see what you have to offer."

No expectations. Just aspirations and potential.

After training camp:

"Hello men. Now that you have gotten yourselves back into a football frame of mind, I have come to expect that you give me everything you have every week. What you had before is no longer good enough."

You have expectations now based on what you've seen instead of what you're hoping to see.

That makes more sense. Of course offseason signings and the draft alter the perception of expectations, but they aren't expectations to begin with. They're clauses of conditionality. You think that:

[View Full Quote]"Ware was an explosive rusher in college. We expect that it'll carry over to the NFL."

That's an expectation based on previous events. Those mean nothing now.

While, it should be:

"Ware was an explosive rusher in college. We're hoping that he can elevate that talent to the NFL level."

That's an aspiration based on previous events but on the potential to see what he can do. Not on what he has already done.

I, personally, don't know if you don't get the logic behind it or not... but I think I've made the difference between an expectation and an aspiration clear.

It's up to you to accept it or not. Disappointment will come from expectations. A learning experience will come from aspiration.

I know the difference between the two words if that is what you are implying. I just don't agree with you. I used to coach. I didn't have aspirations for the players I coached, I had expectations. I expected them to work hard. I didn't aspire for them to work hard. I expected them to study film. I didn't aspire for them to study film. I expected them to be in shape. I didn't aspire for them to be in shape.

You want a softball approach to sports you might as well expect to be last place. No thanks.

I don't agree that in a sports situation you can learn from aspirations and not from expectations. That's a philosophy that does not work in the sports dynamic. As a coach, player, owner, fan, and media member the best way for this team to reach lofty heights is to believe that they can and expect it.

If you expect it you work harder. If you aspire to it you've got built in excuses for why it failed. Again, no thanks.

[Hostile]

Originally Posted by jksmith269

If it were only so easy.. Here's my way of looking at things I don't want you to think somethiing because I tell you to. I like stats because thats all we really have to go by in FB so I'll show you with stats and let you make a decision and yes I some times get heated when the writing is on the wall. I have been asked why do you always come out with the stats well hello in sports its what have you done and the answer is for the most part in the stats.

I thinks its in our Nature to be Hostile (no pun intended HOS) when we don't get what we want or think things should go our way and don't. I will say this if someone presents me with a good reason I'm willing to listen and change my opinion I don't know everything even if part of me thinks I do. I like to be open minded (about certain things) I think its the only way you can learn and I for one love to learn new things. IMO when you quit learning you quit living.

Good post.

I don't want to live in a world where everyone agrees with my opinions and changes theirs to agree with mine. Too vanilla.

I like debates. I like free thought. I like when someone can make me re-think something. To me when someone disagrees with me my manhood isn't threatened. Neither is my intelligence. If anything I feel a heightened sense of awareness and that is never a bad thing.

Disagreement can be healthy. Getting panties in a wad because someoen doesn't see the light that is your opinion is a one way ticket to an ulcer.

Had one, I'll pass.

[jksmith269]

Originally Posted by Hostile

Good post.

I don't want to live in a world where everyone agrees with my opinions and changes theirs to agree with mine. Too vanilla.

I like debates. I like free thought. I like when someone can make me re-think something. To me when someone disagrees with me my manhood isn't threatened. Neither is my intelligence. If anything I feel a heightened sense of awareness and that is never a bad thing.

Disagreement can be healthy. Getting panties in a wad because someoen doesn't see the light that is your opinion is a one way ticket to an ulcer.

Had one, I'll pass.

The problem is there are those who do feel threatened and will fight tooth and nail over some stupid stuff that won't have any berring on their lives. and you seem to get it from just a few who I would hope that if they just stopped for a moment and thought they may smell the roses and got what it was you were trying to convey. And its not that they are always wrong but man when they are right stand back they make it so you want to make sure they are always wrong. Which is bad in itself. Oh Well.....

[KDWilliams85]

Originally Posted by Hostile

I know the difference between the two words if that is what you are implying. I just don't agree with you. I used to coach. I didn't have aspirations for the players I coached, I had expectations. I expected them to work hard. I didn't aspire for them to work hard. I expected them to study film. I didn't aspire for them to study film. I expected them to be in shape. I didn't aspire for them to be in shape.

I bet when you asked them to study film, you were in a gameday situation, correct? That is an expectation. If it were in the offseason, you'd want them to study film. That would be an aspiration.

You want a softball approach to sports you might as well expect to be last place. No thanks.

You can't be a all the time. It gives nothing but negativity. That's something you don't want your team to feed off of.

I don't agree that in a sports situation you can learn from aspirations and not from expectations. That's a philosophy that does not work in the sports dynamic. As a coach, player, owner, fan, and media member the best way for this team to reach lofty heights is to believe that they can and expect it.

Expectations are harder to change once they're established. An aspiration is one of those things you can change on a whim. You can't expect a guy who had a season ending injury to just bounce back. You can hope he can... but it's foolhardy to expect it.

If you expect it you work harder. If you aspire to it you've got built in excuses for why it failed. Again, no thanks.

You can't learn from disappointment. You can make excuses for it. You can't make excuses from an aspiration. You weren't firmly committed to an aspiration. When you aspire, you can easily identify what needs fixing. An expectation just offers a "fail and replace" approach. You don't learn anything. You are extremely critical of those who failed you. And most importantly, you don't fix it. You just give an ultimadeum to the next guy who steps up. That's not being a good sportsman. Not very professional either...

[Hostile]

Originally Posted by jksmith269

The problem is there are those who do feel threatened and will fight tooth and nail over some stupid stuff that won't have any berring on their lives. and you seem to get it from just a few who I would hope that if they just stopped for a moment and thought they may smell the roses and got what it was you were trying to convey. And its not that they are always wrong but man when they are right stand back they make it so you want to make sure they are always wrong. Which is bad in itself. Oh Well.....

Some people have a goal of always being right. In my opinion, that is a foolish way to live. It closes the door to learning anything.

[KDWilliams85]

Originally Posted by Hostile

Some people have a goal of always being right. In my opinion, that is a foolish way to live. It closes the door to learning anything.

Agreed. However, you can always be right and still have room to learn. It's a paradox. You are wrong to be arrogant enough to be infallible. But infallibility is when you can accept you're wrong. You're right about being wrong...

[Hostile]

Originally Posted by KDWilliams85

I bet when you asked them to study film, you were in a gameday situation, correct? That is an expectation. If it were in the offseason, you'd want them to study film. That would be an aspiration.



You can't be a all the time. It gives nothing but negativity. That's something you don't want your team to feed off of.



Expectations are harder to change once they're established. An aspiration is one of those things you can change on a whim. You can't expect a guy who had a season ending injury to just bounce back. You can hope he can... but it's foolhardy to expect it.



[View Full Quote]You can't learn from disappointment. You can make excuses for it. You can't make excuses from an aspiration. You weren't firmly committed to an aspiration. When you aspire, you can easily identify what needs fixing. An expectation just offers a "fail and replace" approach. You don't learn anything. You are extremely critical of those who failed you. And most importantly, you don't fix it. You just give an ultimadeum to the next guy who steps up. That's not being a good sportsman. Not very professional either...

You'll never be a coach. Not with the attitude that a time out fixes the problem.

Sports is a hard business. There is no room for soft techniques of dealing with people. If they can't stand the heat, they should get out of the kitchen.

On your interpretation of studying film being an off season aspiration, no. I'm sorry but the guys who think the off season is cruise control are exactly the kinds of guys you don't want.

Why do you think Parcells is so upset at Tucker? I mean he has 3 months to get in shape right? Wrong, he's upset because he has expectations. One of them is that you are the kind of hungry that you realize your job is on the line for the taking and you want it more than the other guys. He doesn't want a buffet line hunger during the off season. Why should he?

By your philosophy the whole team could show up out of shape and as they get in shape you'd raise your aspirations. I said it before, no thanks.

If they want it they should pay the price. Period.

[Hostile]

Originally Posted by KDWilliams85

Agreed. However, you can always be right and still have room to learn. It's a paradox. You are wrong to be arrogant enough to be infallible. But infallibility is when you can accept you're wrong. You're right about being wrong...

No one is always right. Life doesn't work that way. There's no arrogance about it at all. Just acceptance that as a human, infallability is a word in a dictionary not a birthright.

[KDWilliams85]

Originally Posted by Hostile

No one is always right. Life doesn't work that way. There's no arrogance about it at all. Just acceptance that as a human, infallability is a word in a dictionary not a birthright.

Are you absolutely sure about that? Think about the paradox...

If accepting that you can be wrong makes you right, then you can indeed never be wrong.


As for your previous post:

I'm not gonna say that the offseason should be a joyride. However, you should give them some relaxation. Going at them hard all the time wears them out. I used to play football and I wound up getting an injury that has kept me from it for years. I got burned out and suffered a back injury.

Tucker has been in the mix for a starting job for a couple of years now. He expects results from a guy in his position. Hunter is in a different boat.

My philosophy is that a team should show up with some regard for their career. I wouldn't expect them to be running hard all offseason. I don't want a squad of overworked players.

As for my coaching skills, time heals all wounds. I won't cut him short because he hasn't panned out like I would have wanted. I'll let him have his time and then let him go if he doesn't do what I felt he could have. It's very simple. New England has had success with such matters. They haven't cut their ailing players because they weren't doing their job. It's like trial by fire. Whichever gets burned the least, stays.

[Hostile]

Originally Posted by KDWilliams85

Are you absolutely sure about that? Think about the paradox...

If accepting that you can be wrong makes you right, then you can indeed never be wrong.

Let me guess, philosophy major? You know I could care less about circular thinking. Never cared for merry go rounds. They just don't go anywhere.

As for your previous post:

I'm not gonna say that the offseason should be a joyride. However, you should give them some relaxation. Going at them hard all the time wears them out. I used to play football and I wound up getting an injury that has kept me from it for years. I got burned out and suffered a back injury.

That explains a lot.

I am all for relaxation. You can relax without losing focus. Going soft is a lack of focus.

Tucker has been in the mix for a starting job for a couple of years now. He expects results from a guy in his position. Hunter is in a different boat.

My philosophy is that a team should show up with some regard for their career. I wouldn't expect them to be running hard all offseason. I don't want a squad of overworked players.

Who said over worked? You assume that because YOU got burned out that everyone will. Pretty brazen assumption.

As for my coaching skills, time heals all wounds. I won't cut him short because he hasn't panned out like I would have wanted. I'll let him have his time and then let him go if he doesn't do what I felt he could have. It's very simple. New England has had success with such matters. They haven't cut their ailing players because they weren't doing their job. It's like trial by fire. Whichever gets burned the least, stays.

Oh boy, another New England comparison. No surprise that it is off base. Ever heard of Troy Brown? Why do I think he'd have played FS if they had asked?

Believe it or not, other ways have worked in the NFL. You can bet your nads New England doesn't keep players who become distractions.

[jksmith269]

Originally Posted by KDWilliams85

I got burned out and suffered a back injury.

Tucker has been in the mix for a starting job for a couple of years now. He expects results from a guy in his position. Hunter is in a different boat.

My philosophy is that a team should show up with some regard for their career. I wouldn't expect them to be running hard all offseason. I don't want a squad of overworked players.

As for my coaching skills, time heals all wounds. I won't cut him short because he hasn't panned out like I would have wanted. I'll let him have his time and then let him go if he doesn't do what I felt he could have. It's very simple. New England has had success with such matters. They haven't cut their ailing players because they weren't doing their job. It's like trial by fire. Whichever gets burned the least, stays.

Real quick here hate to hear about your back but just wondering how did getting burned out at FB cause you to injure your back?

From all accounts Hunter has added 10-15lbs of muscle which gives him more of a FS frame than a CB

It doesn't appear that Torrin has run at all this offseason this is someone who takes advantage of his injury and IMO will get what he deserves. He didn't care about his career or he wouldn't let him self get in the shape he's in.

NORS in DRAG LOL

[KDWilliams85]

Originally Posted by jksmith269

Real quick here hate to hear about your back but just wondering how did getting burned out at FB cause you to injure your back?

From all accounts Hunter has added 10-15lbs of muscle which gives him more of a FS frame than a CB

It doesn't appear that Torrin has run at all this offseason this is someone who takes advantage of his injury and IMO will get what he deserves. He didn't care about his career or he wouldn't let him self get in the shape he's in.

NORS in DRAG LOL

I wasn't a fullback though I had the frame to be pretty much anything at the time.

Well, here's the story. I was primarily a defensive tackle/guard and I got t-boned in the back. There was a guy on top of me and another guy came in with the top of the helmet in the swell of my back. I got smushed and was bent over the guy below me. I was bent back like a "u" and it didn't bother me at first. But then it went on and went on until I had to quit. I couldn't do much of anything strenuous. Hell, marching band was torture.