Offensive Line Breakdown

[MichaelWinicki]

Originally Posted by jay cee

Another great post from Bluefin. I know it may not be popular to have a positive outlook. But after reading all of these negative posts, it is great to see someone give well thought out reasons why the Cowboys COULD be successfull this season.

I guess it all comes down to the word "Successful".

If Dallas ends up 8-8 BUT we determine that Q is or is not the starter for '05, that Julius Jones is the answer at RB, that Wiley and Ellis can combine for 18 sacks and Hunter can play corner at least to an "Edwardian" level then I would consider that a success... especially combined with a Buffalo 2-14 record!

[baj1dallas]

Originally Posted by MichaelWinicki

Boy is that optimistic. I can't go that far.

I don't know what the Cowboys have on o-line right now except for Flozell. A month into the season maybe we'll all be saying the same thing...but right now, it's way too early.

[Maikeru-sama]

Originally Posted by MichaelWinicki

I guess it all comes down to the word "Successful".

If Dallas ends up 8-8 BUT we determine that Q is or is not the starter for '05, that Julius Jones is the answer at RB, that Wiley and Ellis can combine for 18 sacks and Hunter can play corner at least to an "Edwardian" level then I would consider that a success... especially combined with a Buffalo 2-14 record!

That would be one hell of a Season. I for one think we are going to struggle this year. But if Pete can play, Wiley and Ellis get double digit sacks (which means Wiley returned back to form) and Jones is the answer, that means they have 1 more year under their belt and we can look elswhere in the draft on day one. Maybe look at positions were wouldnt have thought about prior to that.

Oh yea, Junk, please check your PMs.

- Mike G.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Originally Posted by Hostile

LMAO

Well, I don't drink so I'll drive.

Oh crap. Well, I figured I'd be taking a cab either way. I guess we can sit down and have good eat. I keep threatening you with it. One of these days, I'm going to have to keep my promise and catch up with you.

[big dog cowboy]

Originally Posted by junk

One way or another, I feel Parcells will make both his lines into dominant units.

That is where games are really won and lost. I still like the direction we are going.

[speedkilz88]

I doubt Tango McCauley would clear waivers, since the Cowboys outbid several other teams this year with a $100,000 signing bonus. If they are right on him he will make it over Lehr who will be a UFA next year anyway and there isn't a need for him with Al Johnson and DiNapoli at center.

[The Curly One]

It does not matter how many offensive linemen or players you have on the roster you only have eleven players on the field. While I see a lot of potential in some of the younger guys that does not mean we will have a dominant offensive line this year. I do predict Larry Allen will take his useless a$$ out of the games a lot or get beat every play again. Thats just the way it is, he has not stopped anyone in years and now he will be dominant again because he understands what Parcells wants? Hello! Is there anybody in there? Where do you come up with that crap? Being an offensive lineman is really fairly simple. Stop the defensive guy from going past you and open holes for the runningback. It is not brain surgery here.
Our offensive line will not be dominant this year but should be an improvement over last year and the previous years. The one exception of course is Larry Allen he is getting older, slower and worse ever year. Our offensive line will be vastly improved every time LA sits on the bench. Sad but true.
The other problem is it usually takes several years before a lineman (offense or defense) becomes really good. At this point it is our best option to but the new guys in and hope they learn quick.

"The defense was very good last year and they may be ready to become a dominant unit if the front four improves as Parcells expects. The unit may not hold on to the number one statistical rating, but increasing turnovers will more than make up for it."

Now I agree with that 100%. The number one rating means absolutly nothing if they are not getting turnovers. You have to have the ball in your hands to score points. PERIOD! If we get a good front four on the defense then this defense will be very good and we can ride that pony deep in the playoffs. But your offense still has to put points on the board.

Quote:
Originally Posted by junk
One way or another, I feel Parcells will make both his lines into dominant units.


That is where games are really won and lost. I still like the direction we are going.

I sure hope so. Curly

[speedkilz88]

Originally Posted by The Curly One

It does not matter how many offensive linemen or players you have on the roster you only have eleven players on the field. While I see a lot of potential in some of the younger guys that does not mean we will have a dominant offensive line this year. I do predict Larry Allen will take his useless a$$ out of the games a lot or get beat every play again. Thats just the way it is, he has not stopped anyone in years and now he will be dominant again because he understands what Parcells wants? Hello! Is there anybody in there? Where do you come up with that crap? Being an offensive lineman is really fairly simple. Stop the defensive guy from going past you and open holes for the runningback. It is not brain surgery here.
[View Full Quote]Our offensive line will not be dominant this year but should be an improvement over last year and the previous years. The one exception of course is Larry Allen he is getting older, slower and worse ever year. Our offensive line will be vastly improved every time LA sits on the bench. Sad but true.
The other problem is it usually takes several years before a lineman (offense or defense) becomes really good. At this point it is our best option to but the new guys in and hope they learn quick.



Now I agree with that 100%. The number one rating means absolutly nothing if they are not getting turnovers. You have to have the ball in your hands to score points. PERIOD! If we get a good front four on the defense then this defense will be very good and we can ride that pony deep in the playoffs. But your offense still has to put points on the board.

Quote:
Originally Posted by junk
One way or another, I feel Parcells will make both his lines into dominant units.


That is where games are really won and lost. I still like the direction we are going.

I sure hope so. Curly

Larry Allen should be better this year because his fat arse ain't fat anymore!

[The Curly One]

It aint gonna happen folks! The show is over move along now. But he does understand what Parcells wants from him now. Curly

[junk]

Originally Posted by The Curly One

It aint gonna happen folks! The show is over move along now. But he does understand what Parcells wants from him now. Curly

You have serious Larry Allen issues. Does he steal your newspaper everyday or what?

He was fat and was coasting because the previous coaching staff would let him. Parcells basically said get in shape or you are out of here. Nobody wanted him, so he appears to have gotten himself in shape.

Granted, he isn't the player he once was, but really there are not that many guards that are far superior to him in the NFC.

[LaTunaNostra]

Originally Posted by The Curly One

It does not matter how many offensive linemen or players you have on the roster you only have eleven players on the field. While I see a lot of potential in some of the younger guys that does not mean we will have a dominant offensive line this year.

Curly, you're right only 11 men at a time out there, but increasingly a dominant oline means depth and versatility, not solely ability. Witness the interchangable cogs in New England's well oiled machine that could plug a Dan Koppen in for a Damien Woody in a playoff race with no discernable falloff.

That's what Tuna seems to be after, and in a ball control offense like his, young fresh rotational legs are the key. I look at the depth this year and get happy. Much of the improvement is kids having gotten another year under their belts, but in addition, we have diverse skills and some ideal role players.

Vollers I like a lot. He is a guy who can turn back bull rushers. Not crazy about his pass protection as of yet, but I want him in there on run plays. Seems smart too.

Lehr I admit a weakness for, but he also plays bigger than his size. He is a trap and pull guy, and swing center-guards who don't make mistake are with their weight in gold.

Dinap is also smallish, but he's mean and has some technique. He has quick feet too and I want him in for pass protection when Johnson is rested.

Tucker has a ways to go I think, technique wide, but he has arms like a pterodactyl so maybe teaching can make up for some of the bad angles he looked like he was taking last year. Collins seemed callow too, the little I saw of him and needs to learn to counter beyond simple moves. But he can be a factor vs the run.

The way I see it is the playbook is going to expand a great deal, and the oline, and the tight ends have diverse roles. Ryan and Witten and Campbell are going to be featured on two te sets. The best pulling and trapping guys will come in for those plays. Peterman and Jacobs are said to be meanies, and that's one thing anyone who sticks around is going to have to have in abundance. Toughness, and love of contact. Bill aims to make defenses PAY.

I foresee a very aggressive, agile line with niches galore. Plenty of work for all of them and insurance against injury as each man will know his role and be tuned to something akin to eventual perfection in it. A la New England.

Just as there was no "number one, two, or three receivers" last season, the concept of starter at oline is about to take a seachange, imo.

The recipe calls for versatility, agility, top notch conditioning, and mean streaks.

We shall see!

[SALADIN]

Originally Posted by LaTunaNostra

Curly, you're right only 11 men at a time out there, but increasingly a dominant oline means depth and versatility, not solely ability. Witness the interchangable cogs in New England's well oiled machine that could plug a Dan Koppen in for a Damien Woody in a playoff race with no discernable falloff.

That's what Tuna seems to be after, and in a ball control offense like his, young fresh rotational legs are the key. I look at the depth this year and get happy. Much of the improvement is kids having gotten another year under their belts, but in addition, we have diverse skills and some ideal role players.

Vollers I like a lot. He is a guy who can turn back bull rushers. Not crazy about his pass protection as of yet, but I want him in there on run plays. Seems smart too.

[View Full Quote]Lehr I admit a weakness for, but he also plays bigger than his size. He is a trap and pull guy, and swing center-guards who don't make mistake are with their weight in gold.

Dinap is also smallish, but he's mean and has some technique. He has quick feet too and I want him in for pass protection when Johnson is rested.

Tucker has a ways to go I think, technique wide, but he has arms like a pterodactyl so maybe teaching can make up for some of the bad angles he looked like he was taking last year. Collins seemed callow too, the little I saw of him and needs to learn to counter beyond simple moves. But he can be a factor vs the run.

The way I see it is the playbook is going to expand a great deal, and the oline, and the tight ends have diverse roles. Ryan and Witten and Campbell are going to be featured on two te sets. The best pulling and trapping guys will come in for those plays. Peterman and Jacobs are said to be meanies, and that's one thing anyone who sticks around is going to have to have in abundance. Toughness, and love of contact. Bill aims to make defenses PAY.

I foresee a very aggressive, agile line with niches galore. Plenty of work for all of them and insurance against injury as each man will know his role and be tuned to something akin to eventual perfection in it. A la New England.

Just as there was no "number one, two, or three receivers" last season, the concept of starter at oline is about to take a seachange, imo.

The recipe calls for versatility, agility, top notch conditioning, and mean streaks.

We shall see!

You really should consider opening a football school for other young women such as yourself.

Forgive me for bringing gender in this but unlike most, men or women, you actually watch the game, the players, the match ups and formulate an educated opinion. You REALLY know your stuff!

Sports writers and so called experts don't even do that.

How come I don't know anyone else like you?

Take us to you leader

[LaTunaNostra]

Originally Posted by SALADIN

You really should consider opening a football school for other young women such as yourself.

Forgive me for bringing gender in this but unlike most, men or women, you actually watch the game, the players, the match ups and formulate an educated opinion. You REALLY know your stuff!

Sports writers and so called experts don't even do that.

How come I don't know anyone else like you?

Take us to you leader

I think I just came across my leader myself, my friend.

A female Cowboys fan at the cowboys_forum goes by the name of Kittymama.

At first I thought she was ME in some parallel universe, lol, but she's heads up on me by virtue of her long years of Cowboy fandom. I read thru her 200 odd posts entranced!

I'm gonna intoduce myself this week and grovel at her feet.

She hates the Redskins too!!~

It's not kosher to raid other board posters for their ringers, but anyone can get her here --->

I got a bounty on her head. :p

[Hostile]

Originally Posted by LaTunaNostra

I think I just came across my leader myself, my friend.

A female Cowboys fan at the cowboys_forum goes by the name of Kittymama.

At first I thought she was ME in some parallel universe, lol, but she's heads up on me by virtue of her long years of Cowboy fandom. I read thru her 200 odd posts entranced!

I'm gonna intoduce myself this week and grovel at her feet.

She hates the Redskins too!!~

It's not kosher to raid other board posters for their ringers, but anyone can get her here --->

I got a bounty on her head. :p

By all means, please invite her.

[Bluefin]

Originally Posted by The Curly One

Thats just the way it is, he has not stopped anyone in years and now he will be dominant again because he understands what Parcells wants? Hello! Is there anybody in there? Where do you come up with that crap?

Larry Allen didn't exactly play a lot of football or have surgery free off-seasons in the two years before Bill Parcells' arrival in Big D.

And I listened to Bill Parcells praise Allen for his play in a couple of press conferences later in the season, so LA wasn't a complete matador, IMO.

As for where I got my feces, some came from a "friend" of Allen's and the rest was from various articles.

LA has been focusing on conditioning work with strenght coach Joe Juraszek since the meeting of the minds and the "friend" (ocasional poster on another board, take it with a grain of salt) claimed that Allen was also working out in the method Parcells prefers for his linemen to improve his explosion.

Is that bad?

If Allen didn't want to play in Dallas, he would've accepted the draft day trade to Detroit, forced his release or retired.

If Parcells and Warhop didn't believe LA could still get the job done as a starter, he wouldn't be going to camp.

Allen is in better shape physically and mentally than he's been in for some time.

LA had never been pushed and proded by coaches before last year, so looking back, perhaps the situation should've been anticipated.

I don't know how much better Allen can play or how the above events might help him, but I do see them as reasons to be optimistic rather than pessimistic.

Originally Posted by big dog cowboy

That is where games are really won and lost. I still like the direction we are going.

My thoughts exactly.

With seven strong starting candidates and improved depth being guided by top tier coaching, how can things not get better (excluding injuries)?

Two of last year's starters aren't even competing to start or at their old positions this year.

Simply getting a solid and steady performance from one other position besides LT will make the unit better than last years as I see things.

I'm optimistic that will happen with two other positions at least.

I don't know if the line can become dominant this year with the changes and everything, but they don't have to in order to improve over what was on the field last year, IMO.

Originally Posted by speedkilz88

I doubt Tango McCauley would clear waivers, since the Cowboys outbid several other teams this year with a $100,000 signing bonus. If they are right on him he will make it over Lehr who will be a UFA next year anyway and there isn't a need for him with Al Johnson and DiNapoli at center.

Tango's signing was somewhat under the radar.

Did he really get a triple digit signing bonus?

Like I said in my first post, the final spot(s) for the line should be wide open and any of the new guys may flash skills and claim a spot(s).

The CFL is a passing league, so I'd imagine McCauley is well versed in pass protection.

Anyone know if he has any versatility to his game, can Tango fill in at tackle or center in a inch?

Parcells craves versatile linemen as back-ups, that ability would help McCauley make the cut, IMO.