The perfect Trade Partner & Bait - Dallas Cowboys Forum

Clove · 02-07-2006

Denver Broncos and Greg Ellis.

When you're trying
to sell the Broncos on the purpose of getting a great veteren like Ellis, this
is how you have to do it.

Denver was 28th in the league at accumulating sacks with only 28
for the season...
The Cowboys were 17th with 37 sacks.

The Broncos have a heck of a run defense coming in 2nd in the league
in rushing defense, so they have no problems with their Linebackers.

In the playoffs, the Broncos only had 2 sacks in 2 games. Steelers had
15 sacks in 4 games. (not that this means anything)

Here's the sales pitch (and I'm no salesman -keep that in mind

)

You can't win Super Bowls with 2 sacks in 2 playoff games (Denver's playoff sack total)

In the last 4 years, Ellis has consistantly gotten Dallas 7.5 - 8 - 9 - and 8 sacks.
This year.

LE - Courtney Brown = 2 sacks /Ebenezer Ekuban = 4 sacks Backup
RE - Trevor Pryce = 4 sacks - and one of those were against Tucker in the Dallas game.
DT - Mike Myers = 1 sack
DT - Gerard Warren = 3 sacks

So their starting front 4 accumulated 10 sacks last season, while part timer Ellis made 8
sacks on his own. The best pure rushers by a 4-3 defense should be gone by the time they pick, and even they are not all world.

You guys have a 30th pick. We'll give you Ellis, a 5th, and next years 3rd for that 30th pick.

Do we have a chance, or what more would we have to offer Denver?

cobra · 02-07-2006

So you want to trade a starter, another starter (3rd round) and a 5th round pick for the 30th pick.

Who do you want so bad there that its worth giving up that for? Who is the lock player that which would make such a trade good for the Cowboys.

And from the Broncos perspective, if Ellis is about to get released, then why do they trade for him? Why do they give up a high second round pick for him?

The 30th pick is valued at 620.

Our 5th pick is valued at 33. Our 3rd next year (figure it will be around 20) is worth 62. That is 95.

So we are offering 95 and Ellis for 620. That means Ellis worth approximately the 7th pick in the 2nd round? Hell no.

I don't think you realize what trading means. This is the second absurd suggestion from you.

You don't understand what we have to give up to get another #1. Nor have you shown that a team would be willing to part with a #1. And you trying to say we can get it, why?

cobra · 02-07-2006

That sounds too harsh. It is better to say: sorry, my friend, this isn't going to happen unless we give up a lot. I appreciate your desire to be aggressive, but I don't think you understand how much we have to give up to get another high draft pick.

Clove · 02-07-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by cobra

So you want to trade a starter, another starter (3rd round) and a 5th round pick for the 30th pick.

Who do you want so bad there that its worth giving up that for? Who is the lock player that which would make such a trade good for the Cowboys.

And from the Broncos perspective, if Ellis is about to get released, then why do they trade for him? Why do they give up a high second round pick for him?

The 30th pick is valued at 620.

Our 5th pick is valued at 33. Our 3rd next year (figure it will be around 20) is worth 62. That is 95.

So we are offering 95 and Ellis for 620. That means Ellis worth approximately the 7th pick in the 2nd round? Hell no.

I don't think you realize what trading means. This is the second absurd suggestion from you.

[View Full Quote]

Was Galloway worth 2 number 1's? You don't have much to add as far as helping this team to win, but you have plenty to add to why we can't get better.

How do you know Ellis is going to be released? Are you Jerry Jones?
How do you know the Broncos don't want to make a move to get a passrusher?

Maybe my suggestions were not enough, but this is a scenario where you try to get as many picks as you can to build for a super bowl run. Apparently you want to sit back and do nothing. Since you asked the question who would I want, my answer is Gabe Watson. A beast in the middle. But i'm sure you think Ferguson was God.

You've made comments at me before, but now I have something to say about it. You've given nothing to this board but negativity. If you don't like the idea that's your business.

I've come up with tons of trade possibilities. Ellis is worth whatever a team is willing to pay him. You seek the trade, and if it's not there, you move on. So how about you let me know what you would do to get us into the Super Bowl next year? Let me know what trades you would make, if any? Who would you draft? Let's here them.........

neosapien23 · 02-07-2006

I think we could trade Ellis to Denver for their 30th pick if we throw in a 2nd round pick. Ellis is worth a 2nd on his own. We could trade down from the 18th pick and pick up another 2nd round pick. We could give up the lower 2nd round pick and Greg Ellis for that 30th pick. A fair trade for both teams. We could then go.

25-28 pick - Manny Lawson, Wimberely, or Tapp. Whichever the scouts like more
30th pick - Max Jean Guilles
2nd round pick area unknown - O'Callaghan or Jon Scott
3rd round - best FS, probably Watkins

Everyone would be happy. We would get a an OLB, FS, RT, and G. That would be a homerun draft.

JIMMYBUFFETT · 02-07-2006

I'm all for accumulating more draft picks . God knows we need them . Still , I hope that neither Glover nor Ellis get traded .

First they must be replaced . I don't think that we saw enough out of either Thomas Johnson or Jeremiah Ratliff to say either of them are ready to start should Ferguson or Spears/Canty go down . I know I'm not comfortable with that . Plus replacing them is going to be a tough task . 3-4 Nose tackles don't grow on trees , and while this isn't a match made in Heaven with Glover , he did a pretty good job last year . Likewise , where are we going to find another DE that can come off of the bench and rack up 8 sacks ? I just hate to go messing with the only part of the team that actually has depth !

Second , Glover and Ellis are good ! I mean really , these are a couple of guys that could start for nearly any team in the NFL .These are a couple of guys who have recorded 54 sacks between them over the last 4 years , stayed healthy , have been leaders , and have been productive through a whole lot of B.S. . New coaches , NEW DEFENSIVE SCHEMES , new positions , new personnel , and new roles thrown at them every year and they still produce . I just don't know how Dallas can part with that for a 3rd round draft pick .

I have no idea how to acquire more picks , and I'd be surprised if Dallas is able to pull anything off . Every team in the league sees what we see , that this is a deep draft . They are all going to want to move back and acquire more picks in the 2nd and 3rd where the bulk of the depth is . The problem is that they have more to offer .

Bizwah · 02-07-2006

I can't see Denver taking that deal.

Teams don't trade first round picks for thirty plus year old players. I know you had other picks available, but Denver could get a younger guy at pick thirty.

I could see them taking Ellis for maybe......maybe....but not bloodly likely...for a third.

I think the most logical trade (and I hate trying to predict trades) would be with the Indy Colts. I could see a trade for our number 18 for their first rounder and third. Indy will need a new RB after they lose Edge (assuming they don't get Ricky). If a guy like Maroney is on the board when we pick, they may try to leapfrog a team like the Pats (who may look to get younger at the position).

We won't pick up another third unless we're willing to part with something important.....or take a gamble (like 2003).

neosapien23 · 02-07-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bizwah

I can't see Denver taking that deal.

Teams don't trade first round picks for thirty plus year old players. I know you had other picks available, but Denver could get a younger guy at pick thirty.

I could see them taking Ellis for maybe......maybe....but not bloodly likely...for a third.

I think the most logical trade (and I hate trying to predict trades) would be with the Indy Colts. I could see a trade for our number 18 for their first rounder and third. Indy will need a new RB after they lose Edge (assuming they don't get Ricky). If a guy like Maroney is on the board when we pick, they may try to leapfrog a team like the Pats (who may look to get younger at the position).

We won't pick up another third unless we're willing to part with something important.....or take a gamble (like 2003).

If we trade our first to the Colts they would have to give up their 2nd round pick, not third. We would go from the 18th pick to the 30, a 3rd does not justify that drop.

Bizwah · 02-07-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by neosapien23

If we trade our first to the Colts they would have to give up their 2nd round pick, not third. We would go from the 18th pick to the 30, a 3rd does not justify that drop.

I don't think they'd do the trade then.......

And I usually tend to err on the cautious side.

kartr · 02-08-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cowboy_love_4ever

Denver Broncos and Greg Ellis.

When you're trying
to sell the Broncos on the purpose of getting a great veteren like Ellis, this
is how you have to do it.

Denver was 28th in the league at accumulating sacks with only 28
for the season...
The Cowboys were 17th with 37 sacks.

The Broncos have a heck of a run defense coming in 2nd in the league
in rushing defense, so they have no problems with their Linebackers.

In the playoffs, the Broncos only had 2 sacks in 2 games. Steelers had
15 sacks in 4 games. (not that this means anything)

Here's the sales pitch (and I'm no salesman -keep that in mind

)

You can't win Super Bowls with 2 sacks in 2 playoff games (Denver's playoff sack total)

[View Full Quote]

Not even close. The perfect trading partner for us would be New Orleans,since Payton already knows Bledsoe. Let's trade Bledsoe to them for a third and sign either Kitna or McNair in the off season. Ellis and Glover are high character guys who play consistently well, so they need to stay. We can then use the extra third to trade up into the 2nd round and get Omar Jacobs and use our own 3rd to draft Kai Parham or Todd Watkins.

Hostile · 02-08-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by kartr

Not even close. The perfect trading partner for us would be New Orleans,since Payton already knows Bledsoe. Let's trade Bledsoe to them for a third and sign either Kitna or McNair in the off season. Ellis and Glover are high character guys who play consistently well, so they need to stay. We can then use the extra third to trade up into the 2nd round and get Omar Jacobs and use our own 3rd to draft Kai Parham or Todd Watkins.

It's unreal how clueless you are.

kartr · 02-08-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hostile

It's unreal how clueless you are.

Care to explain what you're referring to. Some here wanted Kitna before. He and McNair are certainly capable of putting up the same numbers that Bledsoe did and with fewer mistakes. Jacobs is certainly has more potential than either our two backup qbs. There's no way he'd have to be sent to NFl Europe as he comes from Florida and is the most polished college qb available other than Leinart.

CrazyCowboy · 02-08-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by kartr

Care to explain what you're referring to. Some here wanted Kitna before. He and McNair are certainly capable of putting up the same numbers that Bledsoe did and with fewer mistakes. Jacobs is certainly has more potential than either our two backup qbs. There's no way he'd have to be sent to NFl Europe as he comes from Florida and is the most polished college qb available other than Leinart.

He is referring to trading Bledsoe to NO......the whole senerio does not add up......the aints will draft a QB.

Clove · 02-08-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyCowboy

the aints

kartr · 02-08-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyCowboy

He is referring to trading Bledsoe to NO......the whole senerio does not add up......the aints will draft a QB.

Leinart is no sure thing. Even if he was, he's going to need time and Bledsoe would be a good mentor. Payton would have a vet qb to help him get off to a good start. They could use their second pick to draft Chad Jackson. They could then use the rest of their picks and free agency to shore up their defense.